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Kiri



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
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Location: Latvia/Italy

PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:02 pm    Post subject: TL Reply with quote

TL (or Ts-āe Laxa) is the language of my conpeople who live in more or less feudal country, called, surprise, surprise, Ts-.

The alphabet (in their order and alignment)(to be honest, it's the only way I can arrange it in my head Very Happy )

Ss Kk Rr Aa Mm Pp
Ff Ii Xx Ee Tt Uu
Dd Jj Gg Nn Oo Vv
Bb Ll Cc Zz Qq Hh

I will not list all the phonology, but only those which don't correspond to what they represent in IPA:
Rr [ɾ] vs Xx [r]
Cc [ʦ] vs Qq [ʣ]
Ee [ɛ], Oo [ɔ]

There are also vowal digraphs:
[], [], ao [ɒ]

These are the possible diacritics:
(indicates a falling tone),
ā (indicates a long vowel),
(indicates accent),
(indicates that the vowel must be pronounced separately)
In the conscript, there is only one diacritic for consonants, but in here there are more than one for some known reason. The given letters with the one diacritic make these sounds:
Ťť [ʧ], [ʃ], Ďď [ʤ], Ģģ [ɟ], Ķķ [c], Ļļ [ʎ], [ʒ], Ņņ [ɲ]

So far so good?
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Tolkien_Freak



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting arrangement you've got there. What's the reasoning behind it?

Odd choice of <q> for /dz/ and <x> for /r/, but cool.

Is -āe the genitive (or whatever) for nouns with a nominative (or absolutive or whatever) in -?

You have marked as falling tone, but you don't have any other tones marked. Is that intentional?
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Kiri



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Tolkien_Freak"]Interesting arrangement you've got there. What's the reasoning behind it?[quote]

Yes and no. I arranged it basically so I can remember by sequences:
skrampfixetudj gnov blc zqh

Quote:

Odd choice of <q> for /dz/ and <x> for /r/, but cool.


Basically because I had spare letters on my keyboard that I didn't have any need for, so, instead of having some extra letters that I would have to copy and paste, I used these Very Happy But I like the way it looks too Very Happy And, since I think of /dz/ as a vocal (is that the term?) /ts/, and I have a separate letter for that..
<x> as /r/ came waaay later, when I swithced to diacritics Very Happy

Quote:

Is -āe the genitive (or whatever) for nouns with a nominative (or absolutive or whatever) in -?


Bullseye. By the way, I had a thought that I could make this lang absolutive based, but since I have only a vague idea of how that works... Wink

Quote:
You have marked as falling tone, but you don't have any other tones marked. Is that intentional?


When I noticed that there is only one tone, I thought of this pattern:
is like a falling tone, and the vowel seems a little bit longer than short Very Happy
ā is the long vowel, but it is also a "regular" tone, as in, it's neither falling nor rising
was initially a rising tone, but somewhat evolved into an accent.

Does it seem logical?
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Tolkien_Freak



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't get whatever logic might be behind the sequence, but it's not like Roman letters have any more ^_^

/dz/ is (in reality, not just in your thoughts) the voiced (that's the word) equivalent of unvoiced /ts/ (though technically /d/ and /t/ go together separately from /z/ and /s/).

Kiri wrote:
Quote:
Is -āe the genitive (or whatever) for nouns with a nominative (or absolutive or whatever) in -?


Bullseye. By the way, I had a thought that I could make this lang absolutive based, but since I have only a vague idea of how that works... Wink

Woo!

Basically, for nominative-accusative languages, the subjects of intransitive verbs and the subjects of transitive verbs are one case (nominative) and the objects of transitive verbs are another (accusative); whereas for ergative-absolutive languages the subjects of intransitive verbs and the objects of transitive verbs are one case (absolutive) and the subjects of transitive verbs are the other (ergative).

If that confused you, I think Wikipedia has a nice diagram under 'morphosyntactic alignment'.

Quote:
You have marked as falling tone, but you don't have any other tones marked. Is that intentional?


Quote:
When I noticed that there is only one tone, I thought of this pattern:
is like a falling tone, and the vowel seems a little bit longer than short Very Happy
ā is the long vowel, but it is also a "regular" tone, as in, it's neither falling nor rising
was initially a rising tone, but somewhat evolved into an accent.

Does it seem logical?

I would expect rather a combination of three tones (low, mid and high or falling, flat and rising) and two lengths into six possible categories as the logical system here. Generally tone and length are not mutually exclusive on a phoneme; and stress (accent) and tone are generally mutually exclusive in a whole language (i.e. tonal langs don't have stress and langs with stress don't have tone).
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Kiri



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tolkien_Freak wrote:
I don't get whatever logic might be behind the sequence, but it's not like Roman letters have any more ^_^


Exacty Very Happy

Quote:
Basically, for nominative-accusative languages, the subjects of intransitive verbs and the subjects of transitive verbs are one case (nominative) and the objects of transitive verbs are another (accusative); whereas for ergative-absolutive languages the subjects of intransitive verbs and the objects of transitive verbs are one case (absolutive) and the subjects of transitive verbs are the other (ergative).

If that confused you, I think Wikipedia has a nice diagram under 'morphosyntactic alignment'.


The question is, if all the other cases work the same way as in nomative-acusative languages?

Quote:
I would expect rather a combination of three tones (low, mid and high or falling, flat and rising) and two lengths into six possible categories as the logical system here. Generally tone and length are not mutually exclusive on a phoneme; and stress (accent) and tone are generally mutually exclusive in a whole language (i.e. tonal langs don't have stress and langs with stress don't have tone).


Hmm... yes, it could be... but I don't know... how about this kind of pattern:
All of these were initially long vowels - ā flat, falling and rising, but through something-something-something evolved into a short vowel with a stress.
I don't know, but, as I believe, it's just a matter of explanation Very Happy
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Tolkien_Freak



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiri wrote:
The question is, if all the other cases work the same way as in nomative-acusative languages?

AFAIK, all morphosyntactic alignment deals with is how to mark subjects and objects, nothing else (unless you're dealing with Austronesian alignment (I think), but that's nigh-incomprehensible and completely irrelevant).

Quote:
Hmm... yes, it could be... but I don't know... how about this kind of pattern:
All of these were initially long vowels - ā flat, falling and rising, but through something-something-something evolved into a short vowel with a stress.
I don't know, but, as I believe, it's just a matter of explanation Very Happy


Hmm. So you start out with tone only relevant in long vowels (which kind of makes sense for contour tones, paying attention to the difference in tone between the two halves of the vowel), and the rising one becomes 'stress' and loses its length. Is that what you're saying?
I think you'll end up with exactly the same thing as stress if you just say that the rising tone just becomes a flat high tone. Also, considering that in a lot of languages stress means the vowel is long (or length somehow factors in, either determining or determined by stress), I don't know if it would become short in all circumstances. If you can find some information on common changes involving vowel length/tone, you'll probably find your answer (and I'd love to see that stuff too).
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Kiri



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tolkien_Freak wrote:
Kiri wrote:
The question is, if all the other cases work the same way as in nomative-acusative languages?

AFAIK, all morphosyntactic alignment deals with is how to mark subjects and objects, nothing else (unless you're dealing with Austronesian alignment (I think), but that's nigh-incomprehensible and completely irrelevant).


This means, it's time for me to try braking my brain with ergative-absolutive patterns. I already tried it out. It's like "wait, what do I use here!?" all the time Very Happy

Quote:

Hmm. So you start out with tone only relevant in long vowels (which kind of makes sense for contour tones, paying attention to the difference in tone between the two halves of the vowel), and the rising one becomes 'stress' and loses its length. Is that what you're saying?
I think you'll end up with exactly the same thing as stress if you just say that the rising tone just becomes a flat high tone. Also, considering that in a lot of languages stress means the vowel is long (or length somehow factors in, either determining or determined by stress), I don't know if it would become short in all circumstances. If you can find some information on common changes involving vowel length/tone, you'll probably find your answer (and I'd love to see that stuff too).


Ok, I'll have to make a little research on that, when I have a bit more of something one could call time. Very Happy Or we could also ask Eldin - it seems to me, that he always has a somewhat answer Very Happy
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Tolkien_Freak



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiri wrote:
This means, it's time for me to try braking my brain with ergative-absolutive patterns. I already tried it out. It's like "wait, what do I use here!?" all the time Very Happy


Razz I'm sure you get used to it after a while. (IDK if my brain's yet used to Emitare's active-stative, haven't used it enough recently. T_T)

Quote:
Ok, I'll have to make a little research on that, when I have a bit more of something one could call time. Very Happy Or we could also ask Eldin - it seems to me, that he always has a somewhat answer Very Happy


What is a 'somewhat answer'? Razz
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Kiri



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, he always has something to say, which, to be honest, isn't always what's needed, but is certainly interesting (if comprehensible Very Happy )

Anyway, my favourite thing about TL right now is the verb structure. It goes like this. Let's start with a word that also happens to be a greeting Smile

Sōmambōes
Sō-mamb-ōes
1SG-see-BEN1
I see (you) and I gain from it

So, the BEN1 is the fun part, because in proper speech, there is a benefactive case added to every single verb. (I'm not sure if that's the right term, but I'm using it, and explaining the use,so it's right Very Happy ) Through this one can indicate, not only who gains from the action, but also the speakers attitude and through that a some kind of politeness.
I'll show you, what I mean.

If in this same greeting, PersonA says Sōmambom, it means that he things that PersonB gains from it, which seems arrogant, but somewhat normal... if you are the King Very Happy

If PersonA and PersonB has a business meeting, they are more likely to say Sōmamblan, thus indicating that they both gain from the meeting.

There are altogether 12 kinds of benefactives, thus the numbers Wink

Not specified (12) ōen
Everyone (11) īn
Noone (0) ān
1SG (1) ōes
1PL.incl. (2) oelan
1PL.excl. (3) oelin
2SG (4) om
2PL (5) olam
3SGM (6) ik
3SGF (7) ek
3PLM (8 ) olik
3PLF (9) olek
3PLC (10) olok

The thing that I like best about this is that you can put a lot of information in one word, for example, if I say: "Sōģanarān", it means that I spoke (to someone), but it was of no use.

Does any natlang do something like this?

And yes, I stole the idea for the greeting from the movie Avatar Very Happy
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Tolkien_Freak



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if any natlangs do it with benefactiveness (AFAIK 'benefactive' is used for the noun case meaning 'for the benefit of [noun]', IDK what you should use here), but many if not most or all have something that you are forced to mark for on every verb just like that. Though I assume you can leave it off for informal speech (at least you implied that), it'd be interesting if you condensed the endings a little and made it mandatory everywhere. I love the idea a whole lot though.

Quote:
And yes, I stole the idea for the greeting from the movie Avatar Very Happy

I wouldn't know, I haven't seen it ^_^ (From what I've heard, it seems like the focus is too much on the environmentalism message than the story, at least for me.)
From what little I've seen of the lang, it looks like the guy uses gratuitous apostrophes, so I don't know what kind of expectations to have for the whole thing. Have you taken a look at it?
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Hemicomputer



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tolkien_Freak wrote:
From what little I've seen of the lang, it looks like the guy uses gratuitous apostrophes, so I don't know what kind of expectations to have for the whole thing. Have you taken a look at it?
I've looked into it somewhat. The romanization is a bit sketchy, but I know that it was created by a genuine linguist. From the few samples available with gloss, it looks fairly realistic and not really very relex-ish. Also it has ejectives, which I love Very Happy .
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hemicomputer wrote:
I've looked into it somewhat. The romanization is a bit sketchy, but I know that it was created by a genuine linguist. From the few samples available with gloss, it looks fairly realistic and not really very relex-ish. Also it has ejectives, which I love Very Happy .


I'll have to take a look at it then.
(Ooh, ejectives...)

EDIT: Looking at the Wikipedia article, it seems pretty interesting. Might make a thread for discussing it, if that makes sense.

(So the name really is pronounced /na?vi/... My jest turned out to be reality!)
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiri wrote:
The question is, if all the other cases work the same way as in nominative-accusative languages?
Morphosyntactic alignment, that is, alignment of the "case(s)" in an intransitive clause with those in a monotransitive clause, is only about the cases of the Actor (or Agent) and Undergoer (or Patient or Object) in the monotransitive clauses, and the Sole Subject in the intransitive clause.
Stuff like illative or vocative or instrumental or genitive etc. etc. won't be changed. There may be some statistical correlations, but there are no necessary implications of the MSA on the other cases besides the two or three (usually two, and I don't know of any case of four or more that aren't considered "quirky") that are used for the core arguments of intransitive and monotransitive clauses.

If the case for the S is always the same as the case for the A and different from the case for the P,
S=A != P, that's Accusative/Nominative alignment.
The P case is "accusative" and the S=A case is "nominative".

If the case for the S is always the same as the case for the P and different from the case for the A,
S=P != A, that's Ergative/Absolutive alignment.
The A case is "ergative" and the S=P case is "absolutive.

If an intransitive clause's subject is agent-like that clause is called "unergative". If an intransitive clause's subject is patient-like that clause is called "unaccusative".
If the S of unergative clauses takes the same case as the A of monotransitive clauses, and the S of unaccusative clauses takes the same case as the P of monotransitive clauses, then that's called "Active/Stative Alignment". The case for the A of monotransitive clauses and for the S in unergative clauses is called "Active"; the case for the P of monotransitive clauses and for the S of unaccusative clauses is called "Stative".

Active/Stative alignments are also called "Split-Intransitive" or "Split-S" alignments.
If the same noun can be the subject of the same intransitive verb in two different cases in a Split-S language, that's called "Fluid-S" alignment. That is, if intransitive verb V can be in Active voice and noun N can be its Subject in Active case in an unergative clause, and also the same verb V can be in Stative voice and the same noun N can be its Stative-case Subject in an unaccusative clause, then the alignment is "fluid-S".

"Austronesian/Philippine Alignment" is also called "Split-Transitive alignment". It has three cases to handle the S and the A and the P. All intranstive clauses' only participant are in the S case. But monotransitive clauses can either have an S agent and a P patient, or an A agent and an S patient, depending on whether the "subject" of the clause is the agent or the patient.

Tripartite alignment also happens; there are three cases, one for the S, and one for the A, and one for the P. Monotransitive clauses always have an A agent and a P patient; intransitive clauses always have an S subject.

And that's not all, but I don't want to go into all of it; see the thread in the ZBB's "L&L Museum" forum, for instance.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Most languages also have ditransitive clauses, which have three core roles; say, Donor and Recipient and Theme. Lately people have begun to talk about aligning the monotransitive clauses with the ditransitive clauses. That is, if the D and the R and the T of a ditransitive clause have three different cases, ordinarily two of them will be used for the A and the P of monotransitive clauses; what goes with what? Typically the D and the A will have the same case, and the P will have the case of either the T or the R.
If D=A and P=T and R is different, we call the R case "dative" and speak of "dative alignment"; if D=A and P=R and T is different, we call the P=R case "dechticaetiative" and speak of "dechticaetiative alignment".
Again, there's more to it; but for the most part only three cases are used in ditransitive clauses' core participants, of which two are also used for monotransitive clauses' core participants, of which one is used for intransitive clauses' only participant.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tolkien_Freak wrote:
Quote:
You have marked as falling tone, but you don't have any other tones marked. Is that intentional?


Quote:
When I noticed that there is only one tone, I thought of this pattern:
is like a falling tone, and the vowel seems a little bit longer than short Very Happy
ā is the long vowel, but it is also a "regular" tone, as in, it's neither falling nor rising
was initially a rising tone, but somewhat evolved into an accent.

Does it seem logical?

I would expect rather a combination of three tones (low, mid and high or falling, flat and rising) and two lengths into six possible categories as the logical system here. Generally tone and length are not mutually exclusive on a phoneme; and stress (accent) and tone are generally mutually exclusive in a whole language (i.e. tonal langs don't have stress and langs with stress don't have tone).


It does not seem logical to have only one tone; that's not a tone system.

(BTW do you have phonemic tone or lexical tone or morphological tone or what? That is, are there two different phonemes that differ only in tone? Are there two different and unrelated words that differ only in tone? Are there for most words of a certain Part-of-Speech two forms of the same word that differ only in tone in a certain way? Or do you just use tone to mark questions vs commands vs request vs statements vs exclamations etc.?)

Most languages that have tone have exactly two tones; most that have more than two have exactly three.

Most languages that have tone have either only level tones or only glide tones (rises and falls), or only level tones and glide tones.

Most languages that have any tones more complicated than glide tones have simple contour tones (peaks -- rise-falls -- and dips -- fall-rises) and glide tones, and maybe also level tones, but nothing more complicated.

Most languages that have tones have only two pitches involved, high and low.

Most that have more than two have just three.

So, a typical tone system might be:
{High and Low}
or {Rise (LH) and Fall (HL)}
or any three of {High Level, Low Level, Rise (LH), and Fall (HL)}.

A language might have two different Rise tones if there are three pitches (say, {High, Medium, Low}) involved in its tone system; it might have any two of {LM rise, MH rise, LH rise}. If it does so, it probably distinguishes the LH rise from one of the other two, or from both of them (it may or may not distinguish them from each other).

Similarly, a language might have two different Fall tones; any two of {HM fall, ML fall, HL fall}.

I can imagine five-tone system consisting of:
* Level tone (no distinction between H and M and L)
* Shallow rise (no distinction between LM and MH)
* Sharp rise (LH)
* Shallow fall (no distinction between HM and ML)
* Steep fall (HL).

Quote:
stress (accent) and tone are generally mutually exclusive in a whole language (i.e. tonal langs don't have stress and langs with stress don't have tone).


There is a tonal language with weight-sensitive stress in which both syllable-weight and stress interact with tone in the following way;
* Unstressed light syllables can only have level tones.
* Stressed light syllables and unstressed heavy syllables can have either level tones or glide tones (rises and falls).
* Stressed heavy syllables can have level tones, glide tones, or simple contour tones (peaks and dips).

Or to say the same thing in a different way;
* Contour tones can only occur on stressed heavy syllables.
* Glide tones can only occur on syllables that are either stressed (whether heavy or light) or heavy (whether stressed or unstressed).
* Level tones can occur on any syllable.

It might benefit you to look into syllable-weight and stress (or accent).

You need to be careful when reading, though. When talking about syllable-weight, people use H for Heavy and L for Light. When talking about tone, they use H for High and L for Low. When talking about both weight and tone it can be confusing. In fact, if you can read a language other than English, it might be best to look up articles written in such languages.

-----------------------------------

Kiri wrote:
Does any natlang do something like this?


Plenty.

The "recipient" is the entity conscious of being affected; and the "beneficiary (or maleficiary)" is either the entity the agent intended to affect, or the entity the speaker considers most saliently affected.

Some languages have "version"; some types of "version" encode which person (speaker, addressee, or other) or which participant (agent, patient, recipient, or other) the agent intended to affect or the speaker considers saliently affected in his current comment to the addressee.

First-person version, that is, the speaker saying that the effect on the speaker is most salient, is a bit like "ethical datives" in its semantics, though it (probably) doesn't use datives to encode that.

Agent-version, that is, the speaker considers the agent or the agent's interests to be affected by the agent's action, is pretty much the same as "middle voice".

(There is another kind of "version"; "introversion" means the agent's action was contained within the agent, "extroversion" means the agent put his action out to something else.)

In languages in which verbs have version, every verb has version. You cannot grammatically say something happened without dropping some hint as to who benefits or who gets hurt. Usually either you have to say whether or not it was you, or you have to say whether or not it was the agent (in your opinion).

Anyway; in languages with four-place verbs (that agree with four core participants), the four participants are usually from among the following five:
*Causer or instigator(see Note)
*Causee or final performer

(if the clause is a morphological double-causative, meaning something like "A convinced B to make C do something", the middle agent is usually not agreed with. In that example, A and C would be agreed with, but not B.
If the verb isn't causative, it just has an "agent" which is probably both the performer and the instigator.)

*Patient or Theme (entity most affected, objectively speaking)
*Recipient (entity saliently conscious of being saliently affected)
*Beneficiary(see Note)/maleficiary (entity agent intended to affect, or entity speaker considers saliently affected).

In such languages any non-causative monotransitive clause will have to be marked to agree with a beneficiary/maleficiary; otherwise it wouldn't have four "participants" to agree with, since there's no distinction between Causer and Causee, and there's no Recipient.

Note: Instigators are often beneficiaries and beneficiaries are often instigators.

-----------------------------------

Does any of that help?
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Kiri



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, Eldin, but, as always, I didn't get most of what you were saying, but it's ok Very Happy

Anyhow, this is the theoretical tonal pattern of standart Latvian:
1. Level tone (stieptā intonācija): high pitch throughout the syllable
2. Falling tone (krītoā intonācija): brief rise in pitch, followed by a long fall
3. Broken tone (lauztā intonācija): rising pitch followed by falling pitch with interruption in the middle or some creakiness in the voice

Also, they only occur on long vowels, dipthongs and short vowels followed by l, ļ, m, n, ņ or r.

Moreover, in many dialects, the falling tone has merged with the broken tone, leaving only two - level tone and falling tone.
Thus, if TL also has only level tone and falling tone, I don't see as anything too extraordinal or unlikely Very Happy
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiri wrote:
Also, they only occur on long vowels, dipthongs and short vowels followed by l, ļ, m, n, ņ or r.
So, only on heavy syllables.

Tolkien_Freak wrote:
... stress (accent) and tone are generally mutually exclusive in a whole language (i.e. tonal langs don't have stress and langs with stress don't have tone).
I did not mean to imply in my last post that this isn't the general rule; only that I've read of a language that doesn't follow that rule.

"Stress accent" is whatever the language "says" it is. It's an increased effort that can be heard by the addressee. "Primary stress" is whatever phenomenon occurs on at most one syllable in each word; "secondary stress" is whatever never occurs on two consecutive syllables nor on a syllable next to a primary-stressed syllable.

Pitch is more often the main component of stress than anything else; volume is actually not very useful as a component of stress. Length and tenseness (vs laxness) are among other features sometimes used as components of stress.

But if a language uses a feature for something else it can't use that feature for stress; so, tonal languages usually don't use pitch as part of stress; consistent with that, since more languages are tonal than aren't, a lot of them don't have stress.
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Kiri



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eh, anyhow Very Happy

I'm having some problems figuring out how to make different times and moods with this verb structure. (reminder: doer-action-gain). I don't really like the idea of additional words and stuff, but I've always seen vowel-change and stuff like that as decreasing the amount of possible words.
Any suggestions? Ideas?
And, can I ask, please speak as simple as possible Wink
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Tolkien_Freak



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hm. You have an opportunity for an interesting tense structure - you can mark (if you want to) both when the action occurs and when the benefit occurs. You could have a structure like doer-action-tense-benefit-tense. I don't quite know how mood would work in the system, but you could add another morpheme in there with tense (IDK if having two separate mood markers would work).

The fun thing with the tense system is you can construct tenses that are single morphemes in other languages out of two. You can do English perfect tense as action-PAST-benefit-PRESENT, for example. (If you want something like pluperfect though you'll need some extra morphemes for the benefit category, it would have to be something like action-PAST-benefit-LATER.PAST.)
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiri wrote:
Sorry, Eldin, but, as always, I didn't get most of what you were saying, but it's ok

Pick two to four words from my posts you didn't understand (if there were words you didn't understand) and ask us to explain them. Maybe pick the shortest uncomprehended words, or the most-often-used uncomprehended words, or the words you're most curious about.

And/or, pick two to four phrases from my posts you didn't understand (if there were phrases you didn't understand) and ask us to explain them. Maybe pick the shortest uncomprehended phrases, or the most-often-used uncomprehended phrases, or the phrases you're most curious about.

And/or, pick two to four sentences from my posts you didn't understand (if there were sentences you didn't understand) and ask us to explain them. Maybe pick the shortest uncomprehended sentences, or the sentences you're most curious about.

If my lack of comprehensibility is not at any of those levels, try to figure out a way to tell some of us why you didn't understand some of it, and give us a chance to clear it up.

Thanks.
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Kiri



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually I wouldn't have so much problems with tense, because I have Past Simple and Contionous and Present Simple and Continous. And it seems that I have no need for a perfect tense...

Examples:
ar - to speak
Present simple
Sōarōes
Sō-ar-ōes
1SG-speak-BEN1
Present continous
Sōaruvōes
Sō-ar-uv-ōes
1SG-speak-CONT-BEN1
Past simple
Sōģanarōes
Sō-ģan-ar-ōes
1SG-be-speak-BEN1
Past continous
Sōģanaruvōes
Sō-ģan-ar-uv-ōes
1SG-be-speak-CONT-BEN1

I'm not sure if I want to add tense/mood to the benefactive too, but on the other hand, I'm not sure, if I can go without it. If it stays like this, then the benefactive is always in Present... Eh, I should have a way to indicate the time of benefactive, though... Argh, I don't know Very Happy

Quote:

If my lack of comprehensibility is not at any of those levels, try to figure out a way to tell some of us why you didn't understand some of it, and give us a chance to clear it up.

It seems that it's more like my brain isn't capable of understanding a lot of term-specific info in a foreign language without forcing too much, and since I'm too lasy to do that... Wink
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What "scientific" languages (that is, languages in which a lot of linguistics research papers are published) do you more-or-less-fluently read?
If French, see http://www.sil.org/linguistics/Glossary_fe/ among others.
If Lithuanian, see http://www.lmp.ucla.edu/Search.aspx?MatID=0&LangID=41.
If Russian, see http://openlibrary.org/b/OL5600292M/Russian-English_glossary_of_linguistic_terms. (There's also a Russian-German glossary if you can read German as well as or better than English.)
You might try to find some in Swedish or Estonian or Belarusian, as well as Lithuanian or Russian.
http://www.proz.com/glossary-translations/german-to-swedish-translations/80
http://www.proz.com/glossary-translations/english-to-swedish-glossaries
http://www.canoo.net/services/Index/ueberblick/glossaryIndex.html?MenuId=Terminology1&lang=en
http://www.lmp.ucla.edu/Search.aspx?MatID=0&LangID=48

Through http://mnytud.arts.klte.hu/glosseng.htm you may find both an English-Hungarian and a Russian-Hungarian glossary of linguistic terminology.

Through http://www.freewebs.com/keping/S_Dic$-DictionaryLinks.htm you'll find one for Japanese, and maybe others.

Through http://www.yourdictionary.com/diction1.html you can find one for Spanish.

This http://www.ac.by/publications/whats/fmtslounik.html looks like it might give you a way to translate Belarusian linguistic terms to Russian lingustic terms and/or vice-versa. I'm not sure.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Does any of that help?

What about Finnish, Polish, Norse, or Danish?
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