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Vreleksá
The Alurhsa Word for Constructed: Creativity in both scripts and languages
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Aeetlrcreejl
Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 839
Location: Over yonder
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 Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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Mine was Nobiin, also known as Nubian.
I'll guess Ojibwe.
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/iwotSwa_H d`Z`Ot`~asa_Hk/
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eldin raigmore
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Location: SouthEast Michigan
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| Hemicomputer wrote: | | Alright, is it indigenous to southern North America |
Not to Mexico.
| Hemicomputer wrote: | | (ie. United States)? |
Yes, but not solely.
| Hemicomputer wrote: | | It doesn't look like any Canadian Aboriginal languages that I know of (except maybe something Salishan). |
It's not Salishan.
| Aeetlrcreejl wrote: | | Mine was Nobiin, also known as Nubian. |
I'm sure I'd have never guessed. Did anyone else?
| Aeetlrcreejl wrote: | | I'll guess Ojibwe. |
That's right. Specifically, it's Nishnaabemwin. (which overlaps with Odawa).
Know what it means?
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Hemicomputer
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 610
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a new one:
Eezhinikaasho kii papaiinaann,
ekwa li Garsoo,
ekwa Kichiiteetagoshew,
Kiniigiigwaann.
Answichil.
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Tolkien_Freak
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| American? North American? |
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eldin raigmore
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Joined: 03 May 2007
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Location: SouthEast Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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Because ofI'm guessing it's from around the Great Lakes in northeastern North America. The <ii> and <ee> and <aa> make me think it might be related to Cree or Ottawa or Chippewa or Ojibwe.
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Hemicomputer
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 610
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | American? North American? |
Yes.
| Quote: | | I'm guessing it's from around the Great Lakes in northeastern North America. |
Close.
| Quote: | | ...me think it might be related to Cree or Ottawa or Chippewa or Ojibwe. |
You are correct in thinking this.
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eldin raigmore
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Location: SouthEast Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:01 am Post subject: |
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Google Translate thinks it's Maltese. I don't.
Is "ekwa" water?
Is "ekwa" horse?
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Last edited by eldin raigmore on Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:13 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Hemicomputer
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 610
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| eldin raigmore wrote: | | Google Translate thinks it's Maltese. I don't. |
It is not.
| eldin raigmore wrote: | Is "ekwa" water?
Is "ekwa" horse? |
"Ekwa" is not a noun. It is a conjunction.
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eldin raigmore
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:13 am Post subject: |
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I think it's an Algonquian language, not a Wakashan language nor a Salishan language. But that's a guess
And I don't think it's Plains Algonquian, though that's even more of a guess.
Assuming those guesses are right, is it Central Algonquian or Eastern Algonquian?
I'll go out on a limb and guess Bodewadme (Potawotami). I don't know why; just a feeling.
Does it mean
"The moon has set, and the Pleiades. It is midnight. Time passes, and I sleep alone."?
Does it mean
"In the beginning was the Word; and the Word was with God; and the Word was God."?
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Hemicomputer
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 610
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| eldin raigmore wrote: | | I think it's an Algonquian language, not a Wakashan language nor a Salishan language... |
Correct.
| eldin raigmore wrote: | | And I don't think it's Plains Algonquian... |
Correct.
| eldin raigmore wrote: | | ...is it Central Algonquian or Eastern Algonquian? |
Yes.
| eldin raigmore wrote: | | I'll go out on a limb and guess Bodewadme (Potawotami)... |
Nope.
| eldin raigmore wrote: | Does it mean
"The moon has set, and the Pleiades. It is midnight. Time passes, and I sleep alone."? |
No. It does not contain any of the words "moon", "Pleiades", "midnight", "time", "pass", "sleep" or "alone".
| eldin raigmore wrote: | Does it mean
"In the beginning was the Word; and the Word was with God; and the Word was God."? |
No, but this is closer. It is Christian in nature. It contains a reference to God, but not the word "God" or "beginning" or "word".
On an unrelated note, has anyone else noticed that our memberlist is suddenly flooded with spambots? Someone should tell StrangeMagic about that.
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eldin raigmore
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Location: SouthEast Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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I figured it contained a reference to the Trinity; that's often an "and-ful" Christian saying.
But in looking for it I disqualified myself.
I am no longer qualified to answer, because I found this: | Quote: | Kichiiteiim kii Papaiinaann,
ekwa li Garsoo,
ekwa Ekichitwaawak Kiniigiigwann.
Taapishkoch kaamaachipaii'ik,
ekwa sheemaak, ekwa taapitaw ~
la ter ekaa chiponipaayik. Answichil. |
which means "Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be ~ world without end. Amen."
Having those two translations, can people translate this? | Quote: | Kigichiiteiimitiinaann Marii,
ekichiiteiimit, Li Bonjeu wiya
avik twa. Ekichiitakishoyenn
kiya ki tuu lii fam, ekwa
kiichitwaawaanaa mawishwaanaa
kapimotaatayenn kataak Jeyzus.
Kiichitwaawann Marii, Mer di
Bonjeu, ayamiieshtemoinaann
sheemaak ekwa atinapoyaako. Answichil. |
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Hemicomputer
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 610
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:29 am Post subject: |
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So: we have established that is is Central or Plains Algonquian, it is related to at least one of Cree or Ottawa or Chippewa or Ojibwe, and the text I gave means "Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be ~ world without end. Amen."
Anyone care to pick up where eldin left off?
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Tolkien_Freak
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
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Location: in front of my computer. always.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| I certainly don't know enough about Algonquian langs to get it without some googling (or at least Wikipedia, IDK how much that counts as cheating). |
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Hemicomputer
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
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Location: Calgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:20 am Post subject: |
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I found my example (but not the language itself) via Wikipedia, so I think it might be something of a cheat.
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eldin raigmore
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Location: SouthEast Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| Tolkien_Freak wrote: | | I certainly don't know enough about Algonquian langs to get it without some googling (or at least Wikipedia, IDK how much that counts as cheating). |
Can you use what you know so far to translate the Hail Mary?
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Tolkien_Freak
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| If 'what I know so far' were a number, it would be arbitrarily close to 0. |
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Kiri
Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Latvia/Italy
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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I could "translate" the Hail Mary, but it wouldn't be translation at all, because I just happen to know the Hail Mary  |
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eldin raigmore
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| Kiri wrote: | | I could "translate" the Hail Mary, but it wouldn't be translation at all, because I just happen to know the Hail Mary |
Well, looking at that other-language Gloria Patri, see if you can figure out which words in that other-language Hail Mary go with which words in the your-language Hail Mary you know.
For instance I think
"Li Bonjeu wiya avik twa."
sounds just an awful lot like the French for
"The LORD is with thee."
"le bon Dieu est avec toi."
This language's definite article is "Li", or at least that's one of its definite articles if it has several.
This language uses "Bonjeu" to mean "good LORD".
I think their locator-verb, which may or may not function like French's "être", is "wiya" in at least one form.
I think their comitative preposition is "avik".
I think their second-person-singular is "twa" in at least one case -- whichever case comes after "avik".
Was that so hard? Much of the rest can also be done that way, equally easily. Some may be more difficult or even impossible.
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Kichiiteiim kii Papaiinaann,
Glory be to the Father,
"Papaiinaann" is "Father", probably related to the French term "papa" for "daddy".
ekwa li Garsoo,
and to the Son,
"ekwa" is "and" (or "and to"; or maybe "Garsoo" is in the dative or allative case). "li" is the definite article "the" for a male human. "Garsoo" meaning "Son" is probably related to French's "garçon".
ekwa Ekichitwaawak Kiniigiigwann.
and to the Holy Ghost,
"ekwa" is still "and". Ekichitwaawak Kiniigiigwann" is "Holy Ghost", and I'm not sure how it's translated. The language is largely polysynthetic, I believe.
Taapishkoch kaamaachipaii'ik,
as it was in the beginning
ekwa sheemaak,
and now
ekwa taapitaw ~
and always ~
la ter
the world
the word "ter" for "world" is probably related to French's "terre".
ekaa chiponipaayik.
without end.
Answichil.
Amen.
_______________________________________________________
OK, how much of that can we also apply to the Hail Mary?
Kigichiiteiimitiinaann Marii,
Hail Mary
"Marii" is clearly "Mary". That leaves "Kigichiiteiimitiinaann" to mean "Hail". But that's very similar to "Kichiiteiim" in the Gloria Patri. There's an infixed "-gi-" and then a suffixed "-itiinaann". So we have the morphemes or morpheme-strings "Ki-gi-chiiteiim-itiinaann". With the "-gi-" and the "-itiinaann" it means "Hail"; without it means "Glory be to" or at least comes close, since we haven't accounted for "kii" yet.
ekichiiteiimit,
full of grace
Well, now we have "e-ki-chiiteiim-it" meaning "gracious" or "full of grace". Notice the similarity to "Ekichitwaawak" from the Gloria Patri. That means "Ekichitwaawak" is probably an adjective; so it's probably "Holy" instead of "Ghost". It seems to be divisible as "E-ki-chit-waawak", though that would require thinking that "chit" and "chiit" are allomorphs, and maybe they aren't. At any rate, "Kiniigiigwann" is probably "Spirit".
Li Bonjeu wiya avik twa.
le Bon Dieu est avec toi.
the good LORD is with thee.
Ekichiitakishoyenn kiya ki tuu lii fam,
Tu es bénie entre les femmes
Blessed art thou among women
I figure "Ekichiitakishoyenn" is "blessed"; "tuu" is either "tous" -- "all" -- or "tu" -- "thou"; "lii" is "les"; and "fam" is "femmes".
Note the similarity between "Ekishiitakishoyenn" and "ekichiiteiimit" and "Ekichitwaawak". I'd guess "shiit" might be another allomorph of "chiit" and "chit". I might go out on a limb and guess "kiya" and "wiya" could forms of the same verb, so "kiya" might mean "art". I might go out on a different limb and guess "ki" and "kii" could be forms of the same preposition, with "ki" maybe meaning "among" and "kii" maybe meaning "to".
ekwa
and
kiichitwaawaanaa mawishwaanaa kapimotaatayenn kataak
béni est le fruit de tes entrailles -- is that really proper French?
blessed is the fruit of thy womb
"kiichitwaawaanaa" looks similar to "Ekichitwaawak". Maybe whoever translated into this language used the same root for "Holy" in "Holy Spirit" and for "blessed" in "blessed is the fruit of thy womb". Note the same suffix in "kiichitwaawaanaa" and "mawishwaanaa". Wonder what that means?
Jeyzus.
Jésus.
Jesus
Just a guess, really.
Kiichitwaawann Marii,
Holy Mary
Looks like "Kiichitwaawann" means "Holy" here.
We have "Kiichitwaawann" and "kiichitwaawaanaa" and "Ekichitwaawak". I think they're all the same root, differing by inflection.
Mer di Bonjeu,
Mère du Bon Dieu,
mother of God,
ayamiieshtemoinaann
pray for us sinners,
If we saw the title of the book this prayer came out of, I'm sure we could figure out this language's word for "pray". I think it inflects for rogative (request) mood and a first-person-plural beneficiary. Probably a word for "sinners" is incorporated. Like I said, I think an ancestor language of this language was polysynthetic. (Another ancestor was almost obviously French.)
sheemaak
now
This word also occurs in the Gloria Patri.
ekwa
and
atinapoyaako.
at the hour of our death.
But I don't know how to parse this word.
Answichil.
Amen.
_______________________________________________________
So, some of the longer, more polysynthetic words, we still can't translate, except "by cheating". But some of them we can translate -- unless you think knowing French is "cheating", too.
What Eastern or Great Lakes Cree language has French as an ancestor language?
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Hemicomputer
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 610
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, it's been well over two weeks since I posted the sample. Here's a couple of hints: it is an endangered language, it is almost exclusively spoken in Canada (esp. Manitoba and Saskatchewan).
Any guesses yet? If there are no new guesses by Tuesday Feb. 8, I'll just let you know the answer, okay?
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eldin raigmore
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| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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Chinook Jargon?
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