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Vreleksá
The Alurhsa Word for Constructed: Creativity in both scripts and languages
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Hemicomputer
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 208
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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 Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:48 am Post subject: Holxûs |
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Pronunciation/Romanization:
Consonants:
/D T Z m X R\ n J l t N 4 j v S s k x G b p/ <d t z m x h n ñ l t g r j v sh s k c y b p>
Vowels:
/6 u @\ { E i OI A O aI/ <u ü û a e i î o ö aj>
Allophony:
s is pronounced /ks/ in the suffix -ûs
ü becomes /w/ when it precedes another vowel E.g. raüi /4{wi/
v is sometimes /f/ or /B/
c becomes /xj/ before <e> <o> <u> <û> E.g. cenî /xjEnOI/
r becomes /r\/ when it is the final letter in a word, or when followed by <t> <z> <sh>
So, Holxûs is pronounced RAlX@\ks.
Grammar stuff:
SOV with postpositions. Adjectives after their nouns, adverbs before their verbs. Tense is isolated and person is synthesized to the verb. When the verb is in the third person and the person is specified by name, the verb does not get that affix. Eg: He/she is=kömön, Sue is= Sü köm NOT Sü kömön. Grammatical gender does not normally occur, but there are ways to specify genders if it is important to the sentence. HE is= kömön mok, SHE is= kömön shî. Mood is placed before a verb just like tense. If mood and tense are both present, tense goes before mood. More to come on the grammar.
Tenses:
Far past-Xe
Near past-Xi
Present-Le
Near future-Tö
Far future-Tü
Future Perfect (will have done, like in Latin)-Mî
Infinitive tense is inherent, "unmarked" verbs are infinitive.
Adding -s makes the tense imperative. Adding -t makes the tense progressive. Imperative progressive is -ts. Prefix û- makes tense participatory.
Infinitive imperative is Mös
Persons
Me=Tan
Us inclusive=Tanv
Us exclusive=Hranv
Everyone=Thanv
You=Ûke
You formal=Oke (used for parents and bosses etc.)
You insulting=Hi (used when angered at someone, referring to them with it is a mild insult in itself.)
Them/it=Kü
Exî is used to refer to deities, it can be used as 1st, 2nd, or 3rd person.
Person Suffixes
1st person= -l/-ul
1st person plural= -lun/-ulun
2nd person= -sh/-ash
2nd person plural= -shun/-ashun
3rd person= -n/-ön
3rd person plural= -nun/-önun
Questions
For asking questions where you are asking about the truth of a statement (Do we do this? Is he ok?), you add the question suffix -aj to the verb. Eg: Are you here?=Yo kömashaj? You are here=Yo kömash. For questions where you are inquiring to an unkown part of as statement (What do we do? How is he?), you replace the unkown word with one of various words (one for verbs, one for nouns, etc.) Eg: What do we do? We live!=Migknulun? Xlenulun! The "unknown value" words are:
Migknu: for verbs
Raüi: for adjectives
Raüc: for adverbs
Tsol: for nouns
Knajl: for articles
Articles
Zî: A (sg)
Zö: A (pl)
Tlî: this here
Tlö: these here
Sûkî: that there
Sûkö: those there
Ruh: any (sg)
Rö: any (pl)
Mvö: all
Egxlî: that/this which I talk of
Egxlö: those/these which I talk of
Gaj: the (sg)
Gö: the (pl)
_________________
Ûke tev Sörshi rax al xlentûr ûkeshi Röt tep.
May Death's servants avoid you and God protect your life.
Last edited by Hemicomputer on Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:26 pm; edited 31 times in total |
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Aeetlrcreejl
Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 553
Location: Over yonder
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:47 am Post subject: |
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That ain't no phonology.
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Tiedämme missä asut.
Tamaqqut qantib.
Selæm ùthakyvl.
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eldin raigmore
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 565
Location: SouthEast Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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Are you aware that in X-SAMPA (and Z-SAMPA and CXS), capital letters are not pronounced the same as the corresponding lowercase letters?
For instance:
< D > is like a voiced "th" in English "leather", while < d > is like most "d"s in English; for instance, that in "dog".
< S > is like a mute "sh" in English "wish", while < s > is like most "s"s in English, for instance, that in "silent".
< T > is like a mute "th" in English "theater", while < t > is almost like most "t"s in English, for instance, that in "total". (The first "t" in "total" is post-aspirated in most English dialects, though; it would be written < t_h > in X-SAMPA.)
< Z > is like the voiced "zh" sound in "measure", and in some dialects' pronunciation of the soft "g" in "garage"; but < z > is like most "z"s in English, such as the one in "zone".
Most of the other uppercase/lowercase pairs are also different.
Sometimes there are two different vowels; A and a, E and e, I and i, O and o, U and u, for instance. Sometimes one is a vowel and the other is a consonant, like V and v.
Some of the differences will be quite unexpected; K vs k, for instance.
Since the IPA chart has 106 pulmonic egressive consonants, not even counting the vowels, the non-pulmonic and/or non-egressive consonants (such as clicks), and the diacritical marks, you can see that 52 symbols aren't enough to cover them all; not even half enough. So almost every letter in the alphabet has to be used an average of almost four times with different meanings; this means you usually need two meanings for the capital letter that are different from the two meanings used for the lowercase letter. (The reason for "almost" and "usually" is that some of the symbols X-SAMPA uses aren't letter-based. They're based on numbers and/or punctuation symbols instead. If all 45 printable-character keys on the standard 108-key board were used, you could get 90 symbols just by using the shift key; but you'd still need diacritical marks to get the rest.)
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Therefore love the child who holds your hand; and let your wife delight in your embrace; for this is the lot of mankind to enjoy:
But immortal life is not for men. |
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Hemicomputer
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 208
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| eldin raigmore wrote: | Are you aware that in X-SAMPA (and Z-SAMPA and CXS), capital letters are not pronounced the same as the corresponding lowercase letters?
For instance:
<D> is like a voiced "th" in English "leather", while <d> is like most "d"s in English; for instance, that in "dog".
<S> is like a mute "sh" in English "wish", while <s> is like most "s"s in English, for instance, that in "silent".
<T> is like a mute "th" in English "theater", while <t> is almost like most "t"s in English, for instance, that in "total". (The first "t" in "total" is post-aspirated in most English dialects, though; it would be written <t_h> in X-SAMPA.)
<Z> is like the voiced "zh" sound in "measure", and in some dialects' pronunciation of the soft "g" in "garage"; but <z> is like most "z"s in English, such as the one in "zone".
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I am aware of the difference. The "d" was fully intended to be a voiced "th". Since the language does not contain the sound "d" makes in English, "d" was used to save space and to distinguish it from "th".
Same goes for the "s" and "z".
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Ûke tev Sörshi rax al xlentûr ûkeshi Röt tep.
May Death's servants avoid you and God protect your life. |
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yssida
Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 251
Location: sa jaan lang
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:37 am Post subject: |
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I get it. Your language doesn't distinguish stops from fricatives?
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kasabot ka ani? aw di tingali ka bisaya mao na
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eldin raigmore
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 565
Location: SouthEast Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: New Gholhûx Phonology (and rough sentence structure) |
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Thanks for the X-SAMPA.
| Hemicomputer wrote: | | And the word order is ObjActVerbTimeLocPrep, with adjectives after nouns and adverbs before verbs. |
| Hemicomputer wrote: | | ... ObjActVerb... |
Is "Act" an abbreviation for "Actor"? the macro-role that contains the "Agent" role?
If so what is "Obj"? I'd expect it to be an abbreviation for "Object". The problem is, the other macro-role besides "Actor" is "Undergoer"; it contains the role of "Patient".
But "Object" is not a semantic role, case role, deep case, thematic role, nor theta-role; "Object" is a bunch of grammatical relations, namely, all GRs except "Subject".
So "Obj-Act-Verb-..." is not a very good way of specifying the dominant or unmarked or most-common "word"-order (order of meaningful constituents), unless you explain better what happens if the Object should happen to be the Actor, as it might be in a passive-voice sentence.
You may mean this language to have what's usually called "OSV" "word"-order; that is, the dominant, unmarked order of meaningful elements, in a main clause with two participants, when both the Agent and the Patient are full noun-phrases, has the Patient phrase before either the Agent phrase or the Verb; and has the Verb after both the Agent phrase and the Patient phrase.
| Hemicomputer wrote: | | ...VerbTimeLocPrep, with ... adverbs before verbs. |
Time and Loc would usually be adverbs, right?
Also, an adpositional phrase -- which is what I suppose "Prep" stands for -- is likely to "fill" either an "adjective slot" or an "adverb slot".
But it's part of the "word-order" type of your language, that it is Prepositional, rather than Postpositional or "other".
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Looks like you're making progress, refining your language. Keep it up, and keep us informed! Thanks.
_________________
Therefore love the child who holds your hand; and let your wife delight in your embrace; for this is the lot of mankind to enjoy:
But immortal life is not for men. |
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Hemicomputer
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 208
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: New Gholhûx Phonology (and rough sentence structure) |
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| elden raigmore wrote: |
Is "Act" an abbreviation for "Actor"? the macro-role that contains the "Agent" role?
If so what is "Obj"? I'd expect it to be an abbreviation for "Object". The problem is, the other macro-role besides "Actor" is "Undergoer"; it contains the role of "Patient".
But "Object" is not a semantic role... |
This is what I meant when I said ROUGH word order. Very basic, preliminary stuff.
I'll have a better one when I learn what goes into a real gloss.
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Ûke tev Sörshi rax al xlentûr ûkeshi Röt tep.
May Death's servants avoid you and God protect your life. |
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eldin raigmore
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 565
Location: SouthEast Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: New Gholhûx Phonology (and rough sentence structure) |
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| Hemicomputer wrote: | | I'll have a better one when I learn what goes into a real gloss. |
What do you mean by "what goes into a real gloss"? Maybe I can help.
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Therefore love the child who holds your hand; and let your wife delight in your embrace; for this is the lot of mankind to enjoy:
But immortal life is not for men. |
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Hemicomputer
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 208
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:51 am Post subject: |
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I mean how actual sentence structures are formed and other such basic linguistic principles.
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Ûke tev Sörshi rax al xlentûr ûkeshi Röt tep.
May Death's servants avoid you and God protect your life. |
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eldin raigmore
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 565
Location: SouthEast Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Hemicomputer wrote: | | I mean how actual sentence structures are formed and other such basic linguistic principles. |
The best thing to do, probably, is just to start saying things.
You might look at
http://fiziwig.com/gsfa_1.txt
http://fiziwig.com/gsfa_2.txt
http://fiziwig.com/tazhu/mcguffey.html
1200 Graded Sentences for Analysis by Mary B. Rossman and Mary W. Mills, first published in 1922.
http://connection.ebscohost.com/content/article/1043208367.html;jsessionid=F761DB57C7686B5A43F0CC1D699929D6.ehctc1
http://www.potterpcs.net/gsfa/
Other popular texts include;
The first article of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights;
http://daccessdds.un.org/doc/RESOLUTION/GEN/NR0/043/88/IMG/NR004388.pdf?OpenElement
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood."
Aesop's fable "The North Wind and the Sun"
http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/bl/bl_aesop_northwind_sun.htm
Aesop's Fables
Translated by George Fyler Townsend
The North Wind and the Sun
"THE NORTH WIND and the Sun disputed as to which was the most powerful, and agreed that he should be declared the victor who could first strip a wayfaring man of his clothes. The North Wind first tried his power and blew with all his might, but the keener his blasts, the closer the Traveler wrapped his cloak around him, until at last, resigning all hope of victory, the Wind called upon the Sun to see what he could do. The Sun suddenly shone out with all his warmth. The Traveler no sooner felt his genial rays than he took off one garment after another, and at last, fairly overcome with heat, undressed and bathed in a stream that lay in his path.
Persuasion is better than Force."
Genesis 11:1-9 (The Tower of Babel)
http://www.tribulation.com/prt_towr.htm
Genesis 11:1-9: The Tower of Babel
1 Now the whole Earth used the same language and
the same words.
2 And it came about as they journeyed east, that
they found a plain in the land of Shinar and
settled there.
3 And they said to one another, "Come, let us make
bricks and burn them thoroughly." And they used
brick for stone, and they used tar for mortar.
4 And they said, "Come, let us build for ourselves
a city, and a tower whose top will reach into
heaven, and let us make for ourselves a name; lest
we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole
earth."
5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the
tower which the sons of men had built.
6 And the LORD said, "Behold, they are one people,
and they all have the same language. And this is
what they began to do, and now nothing which they
purpose to do will be impossible for them."
7 "Come, let Us go down and there confuse their
language, that they may not understand one
another's speech."
8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from there
over the face of the whole earth; and they stopped
building the city.
9 Therefore its name was called Babel, because
there the LORD confused the language of the whole
earth; and from there the LORD scattered them
abroad over the face of the whole earth (Genesis
11:1-9 NAS).
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Also, there are certain popular word-lists to build up your lexicon.
The shortest is inadequate for conversation; it's the 207-word Swadesh list. But it is very popular.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swadesh_list#Swadesh_list_in_English
The shortest which is adequate for conversation, is the first 850 words of B.A.S.I.C. English by Charles K. Ogden (and I.A. Richards?).
http://ogden.basic-english.org/words.html
If you're afraid of using exactly the same "semantic map" to divide up semantic space as your L1 or some other natlang or other language you know, you might want to use the 1350-or-so Lojban gismu.
http://www.lojban.org/publications/wordlists/gismu_english_order.txt
And there are another few lists of 2000 to 5000 words each that are fairly popular among conlangers. Langmaker's "resources" section lists some.
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Other ideas that might help:
Look up Matthew Dryer's "Clause Types" chapter in the Shopen anthology and try to translate one clause of each type.
Look in CONLANG-L for the 10-sentence-per-week translation exercises.
Actually develop a generative grammar for your language, and start making sentences from simplest to most complicated.
For instance;
Does a sentence necessarily consist of a subject and a predicate?
Does a predicate have to have a verb in it?
Is the object (if there is one) more tightly bound to the verb than anything else?
And so on.
_________________
Therefore love the child who holds your hand; and let your wife delight in your embrace; for this is the lot of mankind to enjoy:
But immortal life is not for men. |
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Hemicomputer
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 208
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you very much. I think I will just start saying things and have the language develop naturally.
_________________
Ûke tev Sörshi rax al xlentûr ûkeshi Röt tep.
May Death's servants avoid you and God protect your life. |
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Serali
Admin
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 727
Location: The Land Of Boingies
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:18 am Post subject: |
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Hey!
Sorry for my long absence from here! Missed you guys alot. You can thank all the crap that's currently going on in my life for stressing me out and making me go deeper with in my depression.
Any way Eldin thanks for the links! This will be mighty useful for Käläli since there's not much on it.
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Tobo deu ne lenito sugu? - You kissed a frog?! |
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Hemicomputer
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 208
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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As you can see, some HEAVY updates have been made. I've kind of run out of linguistic steam for now, so it's time to voice a concern: Is my language too complicated? It seems like there's a bit too much of everything. Please let me know what you all think.
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Ûke tev Sörshi rax al xlentûr ûkeshi Röt tep.
May Death's servants avoid you and God protect your life. |
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