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StrangeMagic
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Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 493
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 Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Okay, thank you for the commentary, I had already put the 'hopeful' mood/tense into the Mood section of my grammar. But not the 'mystic'. |
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Aeetlrcreejl
Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 551
Location: Over yonder
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| eldin raigmore wrote: | | Many people call all tense-aspect-mood accidents of verbs "tense". I would prefer to distinguish tenses from aspects from moods. |
So would I.
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Tamaqqut qantib.
Selæm ùthakyvl.
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Tolkien_Freak
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 318
Location: Eiëra
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Raitoliste makes no distinction between 'this' and 'that'. |
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eldin raigmore
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 548
Location: SouthEast Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Tolkien_Freak wrote: | | Raitoliste makes no distinction between 'this' and 'that'. |
So your demonstrative has only one "degree of remoteness".
Interesting.
How does that make it different from a pronoun or a definite article?
Many languages have three grades of demonstrative. They can differ by degree of remoteness (proximal, medial, or distal); or by "deictic center" (near the speaker, near the addressee, near the 3rd-person (or far from both speaker and addressee)).
Adpihi has 96 demonstratives.
They differ depending on whether the referent is closer to the speaker than to the addressee, or closer to the addressee than to the speaker.
They differ depending on whether the speaker is closer to the referent than to the addressee, or closer to the addressee than to the referent.
They differ depending on whether the addressee is closer to the referent than to the speaker, or closer to the speaker than to the referent.
They differ depending on whether or not the referent is within reach of the speaker.
They differ depending on whether or not the referent is visible to the speaker.
They differ depending on whether or not the referent is within reach of the addressee.
They differ depending on whether or not the referent is visible to the addressee.
As you can see, those first three differences divide them into six sets; each has sixteen members, since the last four differences are logically independent. But some of them are rare; for example, it would be unusual for a referent which is closer to the speaker than to the addressee, to be out of the speaker's reach but in the addressee's reach. |
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Tolkien_Freak
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 318
Location: Eiëra
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Actually, it (they, really, there's a separate one for each root) is a pronoun that can be used as a demonstrative adjective - you can say 'this thing' by saying either 'reike' or 'reiki ke' (or 'there' by 'reime' or 'reimi me', etc). |
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eldin raigmore
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 548
Location: SouthEast Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Tolkien_Freak wrote: | | Actually, it (they, really, there's a separate one for each root) is a pronoun that can be used as a demonstrative adjective - you can say 'this thing' by saying either 'reike' or 'reiki ke' (or 'there' by 'reime' or 'reimi me', etc). |
I see. Like "this here now post" or "that there post"? |
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Tolkien_Freak
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 318
Location: Eiëra
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| 'That there post' seems like it. |
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Hemicomputer
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 201
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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Holxûs has:
A first person inclusive that represents multiple people being one.
An "Always" tense (is that uncommon?).
A /Z/ and no /z/
A /D/ and /t/ but no /d/
It also uses the word for zero as a negative prefix and has no word for "to remember" or "to realize". "I remember it" is said as "my brain sees it".
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Ûke tev Sörshi rax al xlentûr ûkeshi Röt tep.
May Death's servants avoid you and God protect your life. |
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eldin raigmore
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 548
Location: SouthEast Michigan
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| Hemicomputer wrote: | | A first person inclusive that represents multiple people being one. |
How is that ever useful? (Not saying it can't be; just wondering how. Your explanation may be an in-story explanation, and/or may apply only to speakers of your conlang. OTOH you could tell me something I've never heard of, or forgotten, about some natlang.)
| Hemicomputer wrote: | | An "Always" tense (is that uncommon?). |
I don't know; is the "gnomic aorist" an "always" tense?
| Hemicomputer wrote: | | It also uses the word for zero as a negative prefix |
Hmm. Wouldn't it be the other way 'round? "Zero" is a rather late invention; the word for "empty" was borrowed and modified to make "zero". But "not" and "un" and so on had been around for a while.
| Hemicomputer wrote: | | and has no word for "to remember" or "to realize". "I remember it" is said as "my brain sees it". |
Wonder what that would do to evidentiality?
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Therefore love the child who holds your hand; and let your wife delight in your embrace; for this is the lot of mankind to enjoy:
But immortal life is not for men. |
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eldin raigmore
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 548
Location: SouthEast Michigan
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| Tolkien_Freak wrote: | | 'That there post' seems like it. |
H. Beam Piper's "Uller Uprising" has the "Kragan" language; it has four tenses,- temporally present and spatially present
- temporally present and spatially non-present
- temporally non-present and spatially present
- temporally non-present and spatially non-present
which apply to nouns rather than verbs.
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Therefore love the child who holds your hand; and let your wife delight in your embrace; for this is the lot of mankind to enjoy:
But immortal life is not for men. |
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Hemicomputer
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 201
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| eldin raigmore wrote: | | How is that ever useful? (Not saying it can't be; just wondering how. Your explanation may be an in-story explanation, and/or may apply only to speakers of your conlang. OTOH you could tell me something I've never heard of, or forgotten, about some natlang.) |
It is, as far as I know, unique to the language. It is used mainly during the wedding ceremony, where those to be married say vows in unison using that word. Other rituals which involve "oneness" use it. It was a later addition to the language, made by "depluralizing" the we inclusive. ("Hrolv" to "Hrol")
| eldin raigmore wrote: | | I don't know; is the "gnomic aorist" an "always" tense? |
I am afraid I have no idea what those are. Explain to the n00b, please.
| eldin raigmore wrote: | | Hmm. Wouldn't it be the other way 'round? "Zero" is a rather late invention; the word for "empty" was borrowed and modified to make "zero". But "not" and "un" and so on had been around for a while. |
*forehead slap* Just looked at my lexicon. Actually, it's a different but highly similar word. I got confused by the similarity.
| eldin raigmore wrote: | | Wonder what that would do to evidentiality? |
Interesting thing to ponder. The only real way find out would be to translate some sentences. I should get around to that sometime soon.
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Ûke tev Sörshi rax al xlentûr ûkeshi Röt tep.
May Death's servants avoid you and God protect your life. |
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dusepo
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 55
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Tolkien_Freak wrote: | | Raitoliste makes no distinction between 'this' and 'that'. |
and the same with Retfon  .
also, Retfon has no words for belonging. for instance...
my foot = ngō'negō = literally "me'foot" or "I'foot" (Retfon also makes no distinction between me and I, but I guess that's not so unusual.
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eldin raigmore
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 548
Location: SouthEast Michigan
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 3:27 am Post subject: |
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| Hemicomputer wrote: | | eldin raigmore wrote: | | I don't know; is the "gnomic aorist" an "always" tense? |
I am afraid I have no idea what those are. Explain to the n00b, please. |
gnomic aorist
aorist
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Therefore love the child who holds your hand; and let your wife delight in your embrace; for this is the lot of mankind to enjoy:
But immortal life is not for men. |
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Hemicomputer
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 201
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| eldin raigmore wrote: | | Hemicomputer wrote: | | eldin raigmore wrote: | | I don't know; is the "gnomic aorist" an "always" tense? |
I am afraid I have no idea what those are. Explain to the n00b, please. |
gnomic aorist
aorist |
Ah, I see. Thank you.
From what I've read, no. My always is not a gnomic aorist. It is used for things that happen on a frequent basis.
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Ûke tev Sörshi rax al xlentûr ûkeshi Röt tep.
May Death's servants avoid you and God protect your life. |
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Vortex
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:50 am Post subject: |
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Hásu Khómiyo has 30 suffixes that can be used to show clause chaining.
It has 17 pronouns
It has no definite and indefinite articles.
Definiteness is only shown in pronouns, personal suffixes of verbs and possessor suffixes.
Verbs can take take personal suffixes for the Agent, patient, receiver/benefactor, and instrument/comiative.
There are two derivational prefixes to show a persons attitude's towards the situation.
The same thing can be shown on adjectives. (The neutral attitude for both the adjective and the verb are shown with a zero marker)
There are two realis moods: indicative and generic
There are two copulas for predicate nominals for equation and proper inclusion predicate nominals. These copulas are both on average omitted.
The copulas are also only conjugated for different aspects and tenses.
There are 5 tenses: distant past, near past, present, near future, and distant future.
There are seven moods.
There are 4 forms of verb negation depending on whether the clause contains a motion verb, the clause is locative/existential/possessive clause, contains a non-motion verb, or is a predicate nominal.
There are 4 ways to say "to be able to" depending whether the verb is a motion verb, stationary verb, sensory/thought process, miscellaneous class verb.
EDIT: There are also 4 types of evidentiality. |
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