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Lovecraft

 
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:54 am    Post subject: Lovecraft Reply with quote

That is not dead which can eternal lie,
and with strange aeons even death may die.


Emitare:
Udjarü uzaturiu aruluzjine ka,
ljatue osanemaku udjaluzjeyu udjayu.

dead-NEG end-NEG-ADV lie.motionless-POT-ATT thing\STAT,
strange\ATT age-ABL die-POT-and death\STAT-and.

That which can unendingly lie motionless is not dead,
and after strange ages even death can die.

Japanese:
永遠に
潜めるものは
死んでいぬ
変な時代で
死にも死ぬかも
eien ni
hisomeru mono wa
shinde inu
hen na jidai de
shini mo shinu ka mo

eternity ADV
lurk-POT.RT think TOPIC
die.CONT exist.MZ-NEG (a kind of periphrastic, ~= English perfect tense)
strange RT age [...don't know how to gloss de here]
death also.TOPIC die maybe


Yeah, I did the Japanese one as a tanka because it's awesome. I don't have any poetry styles for Emitare yet so I just did a kind of prose thing.


Last edited by Tolkien_Freak on Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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Kiri



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Latvia/Italy

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry for my ignorance, but.. what is an aeon and what is it's use here? Very Happy
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aeon is the British spelling of eon - if you don't know what that means, it's basically a very long length of time (like ages - thousands of years or more).

I don't know how to gloss 'with strange aeons' here though - I really don't know what the 'with' is doing. It's almost a duration of time thing...
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eldin raigmore
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Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1621
Location: SouthEast Michigan

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aeon
Eon

Technically, an eon (in geology) is a thousand million years or ten myriad myriad years or a million millenia or ...

The Earth and the Sun and the Solar System are about four and a half eons old.

The entire universe is about fifteen eons old. (The article says slightly less than fourteen.)

See this.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course, any literal or technical meaning ascribed to the poem is nonsense. Communicating true information was not Lovecraft's purpose in that poem.
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Zearen Wover



Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I translated it into lojban as so:

.i lo na morsi cu jai ranji li ro fai lonu vo'a kakne loka vreta
.ije ba lo cizra cedra loka morsi do'anai cu morsi la'acu'i

There may be better wordings and such. It was difficult to translate such an ambiguous phrase into a non ambiguous language.
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I ended up with translating the last bit ('even death may die') into Emitare as 'even death can die' and into Japanese as 'perhaps even death will die'.

Can we have a gloss? I don't know Lojban.
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eldin raigmore
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Joined: 03 May 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zearen Wover wrote:
I translated it into lojban as so:

.i lo na morsi cu jai ranji li ro fai lonu vo'a kakne loka vreta
.ije ba lo cizra cedra loka morsi do'anai cu morsi la'acu'i

There may be better wordings and such. It was difficult to translate such an ambiguous phrase into a non ambiguous language.


How many Lojbanists does it take to change a broken light bulb?
Two.
One to figure out what to change it into, and another to figure out what kind of bulb emits broken light.
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Zearen Wover



Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eldin raigmore wrote:
How many Lojbanists does it take to change a broken light bulb?
Two.
One to figure out what to change it into, and another to figure out what kind of bulb emits broken light.


.u'i mi cmila

Tolkien_Freak wrote:
Yeah, I ended up with translating the last bit ('even death may die') into Emitare as 'even death can die' and into Japanese as 'perhaps even death will die'.


I used discursives for ‘even’ (do'anai meaning a rare occurance) and ‘may’ (la'acu'i meaning a neutral amount of probability) I interpreted ‘with’ the same way you did, but I could see using krinu (justifies/is the reason for) as well.

Tolkien_Freak wrote:
Can we have a gloss? I don't know Lojban.


Lojban is another one of those languages I don't even know how to begin to gloss. So I will enlist the help of jbofi'e. It says:

.i `.' [₁(₂[ranji₁ (persistant thing(s)) :] lo any/some (₃na not morsi dead thing(s))₃)₂ cu is/does «₄jai ranji being persistant»₄ (₅[ranji₂ (persistance interval(s)) :] li No. ro every)₅ (₆[ranji₁ (persistant thing(s)) :] fai lo any/some <₇nu event(s) of [₈(₉[kakne₁ (capable thing(s)) :] vo'a x1 it)₉ [is, does] «₁₀kakne being capable»₁₀ (₁₁[kakne₂ (can be done) :] lo any/some <₁₂ka property of [₁₃«₁₄vreta reclin-ing»₁₄]₁₃>₁₂)₁₁]₈>₇)₆]₁

.i `.' je and [₁₅(₁₆ba after lo any/some (₁₇cizra strange [type-of] cedra era(s))₁₇)₁₆ (₁₈[morsi₁ (dead thing(s)) :] lo any/some <₁₉ka property of [₂₀«₂₁morsi being dead do'anai {parsimoniously..}»₂₁]₂₀>₁₉)₁₈ cu is/does «₂₂morsi being dead la'a cu'i {neutral probability..}»₂₂]₁₅
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zearen Wover wrote:
I interpreted ‘with’ the same way you did, but I could see using krinu (justifies/is the reason for) as well.

Hadn't thought of that, makes sense.

Quote:
[gloss]

*head spins*

ENH?
I think I get bits of it, but that is a DANG confusing gloss. I guess Lojban isn't sposed to be anything like a natlang would ever conceivably be.

Öü...
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kyonides



Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 301

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lojban tries to emulate a functional programming language or an object-oriented one? Or is it a mix of both of them?
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