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The Proverbs of Cordelier
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Kiri



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Latvia/Italy

PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tolkien_Freak wrote:

I guess I just wasn't expecting the comma between gribot and lai to tērē.
I think I'm entirely confused on the grammar of that clause there. I guess for an IE lang I'd expect want spend-PASS-INF (which is the 'simpler' way you described) but the one you picked is more literally in English 'wants that it is spent'. I think my confusion comes from the fact that your gloss seems to read 'wants that (it, i.e. something else) spends it (the money)', i.e. your want that it.ACC spend.3.


Well, the literal translation would be "wants that [someone] spends it", but yes, as I said, one can also use a passive way of expression. It's just the fact that I'm not a big fun of passive voice in Latvian, so I tend to avoid using it.
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
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Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That makes sense then. I guess it was confusing me because it sounds so unnatural in English (which is kind of embarrassing somehow...).
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achemel



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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Location: up for debate

PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tolkien_Freak wrote:
Gah, Ualaxx is frightening.


Yes, it is. And time-consuming. (^_^)

Tolkien_Freak wrote:
And Hemnälg looks so Nordic that I always read it in my head with Norwegian tone patterns ^_^


I tend to pronounce the longer words with a rising tone so the final syllable takes the highest pitch, unless it's a 2-syllable word at the end of a sentence, which then would be accented on its first syllable. Long vowels kind of waver. And I'm too tired and lazy right now (just got off of work) to look up what Norwegian tone patterns are like, but if it's anything like what I described that's awesome. Very Happy


Tolkien_Freak wrote:
Quote:
@T_F, I like your Japanese translation - it sounds so nice and succinct.

Thanks ^_^
Quick question - my default kanji for kotoba is 詞 - I know it's weird, but how weird do you think it is?


Oh I don't think it's at all weird. My default is the same. I prefer 詞 actually, because I think it looks nicer and seems more poetic or learned or something, but I know that 詞 and 言葉 appear in different contexts and I can never tell which one is right, per se, unless it's taught to me. Do you use Tangorin.com? On there it looked like 言葉 showed up the most when the intended meaning was just "word" and 詞 referred to more specific things like word types and stuff. Maybe it just depends on the writer and what effect he wants to give.


I wish I could understand this computer language stuff! (>_<) I took a class in Visual Basic two years ago and even though it was (probably) less than the basics it was death. This is more death. But it's really cool! Very Happy
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I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
(more) Chinese, Swedish, Italian, German, Indonesian, Tagalog, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
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Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

achemel wrote:
I tend to pronounce the longer words with a rising tone so the final syllable takes the highest pitch, unless it's a 2-syllable word at the end of a sentence, which then would be accented on its first syllable. Long vowels kind of waver. And I'm too tired and lazy right now (just got off of work) to look up what Norwegian tone patterns are like, but if it's anything like what I described that's awesome. Very Happy

Norwegian tone patterns are... weird. I honestly have no idea how to describe them. I don't think that's how they work, though Sad
(If you've ever heard someone making fun of Vikings/other Norsemen by using strange tone patterns, it's probably something similar to that.)

Quote:
Oh I don't think it's at all weird. My default is the same. I prefer 詞 actually, because I think it looks nicer and seems more poetic or learned or something, but I know that 詞 and 言葉 appear in different contexts and I can never tell which one is right, per se, unless it's taught to me. Do you use Tangorin.com? On there it looked like 言葉 showed up the most when the intended meaning was just "word" and 詞 referred to more specific things like word types and stuff. Maybe it just depends on the writer and what effect he wants to give.

Really? AFAIKnew, the normal one was 言葉 and you used 詞 mostly as シ in compounds like 名詞、動詞、など。 I think 詞 in Chinese means something related to poetry (ci? whatever that means), so it is a bit more poetic.
I just picked 詞 because it's easier to remember (I can never remember 葉) and not normal. Razz
(Tangorin.com looks nice, my default is jisho.org.)
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achemel



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jisho.org looks pretty useful too. I probably will never understand Norwegian tones either, but they seem quite unique and interesting. (^_^)

I know 詞 in Chinese appears in words like "vocabulary" 生詞 (shengci) so it makes sense that it appears in Japanese words like 名詞 and 動詞, but I guess it does mostly refer to poetry or song: 詞華集、詞書、詞賦、歌詞、作詞、女房詞。
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I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
(more) Chinese, Swedish, Italian, German, Indonesian, Tagalog, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hm. I wonder if the compounds it's used in are in similar proportions between linguistics and literature in Chinese and Japanese.

Norwegian tones are definitely unique. They're basically the one complicated part of Norwegian I've picked up from my family, I'm glad I don't have to learn them ^_^

(And I just realized I've hijacked the thread. ごめんなさい!)
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LingoDingo
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Joined: 25 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aalmok:

.xai li sikš(ciimon herogzâs“kesea go”):saň deňkuseňal;ksek dupeňal;glan suulal.

existence-0.ACT-0.IND-VBZ.3.SG.PRS three thing-PL.NOM scream-0.ACT-VBZ.PRS.INF end-*_lessness*-ADV use-0.ACT-VBZ.2.IMP 1.SG.ACC money-0.SG.NOM expenditure-PAS-OPT-0.V.NMZ-0.SG-GEN.SG.NOM and weapon-0.SG.NOM murder-OPT-0.V.NMZ-0.SG-GEN.SG.NOM and word-0.SG.NOM meaningless-0.SG-GEN.SG.NOM

*I don't know if there's a specific way to gloss a suffix meaning “_lessness”, so I just put it that way.

I know I went all out on the glossing, but I felt it deserved to be treated as it truly is. I.e. anything that's not a noun is almost always derived from one by means of only suffixes. (“ciiam” means “a scream” and “ciiamon” means “to scream”)

I also separated the words in the gloss with colors to make them easier to see the beginning and end of each one.
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Fluent or nearly fluent in: English, German, Japanese
Mildly capable in: Spanish, Russian, French, Chinese

Constructed Languages: Aalsen, Aalmok Repurpose, Samamisu

.aď sodai peťâs sokâs na asnâ;šustâs buntai mokâ aaťal. - One never truly knows a culture until they learn its language.


Last edited by LingoDingo on Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:51 pm; edited 2 times in total
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eldin raigmore
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Joined: 03 May 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LingoDingo wrote:
existence-0.ACT-0.IND-VBZ.3.SG.PRS three thing-PL.NOM scream-0.ACT-VBZ.PRS.INF end-*_lessness*-ADV use-0.ACT-VBZ.2.IMP 1.SG.ACC money-0.SG.NOM expenditure-PAS-OPT-0.V.NMZ-0.SG-GEN.SG.NOM and weapon-0.SG.NOM murder-OPT-0.V.NMZ-0.SG-GEN.SG.NOM and word-0.SG.NOM meaningless-0.SG-GEN.SG.NOM
....
I also separated the words in the gloss with colors to make them easier to see the beginning and end of each one.

Do the colors mean anything?
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Kiri



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
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Location: Latvia/Italy

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
French:
"Il y a trois choses qui crient sans cesse, "Utilise-moi": la monnaie voulant être gaspillée, les armes qui désirent tuer, et les paroles vaines."


Italian:
"Ci sono tre cose che gridano senza tregua, "Usami": i soldi volendo stare sprecati, le armi desiderando uccidere, e le parole vane."

My romlan:
"Ic sun trei coze qui gridan sin çesa, "Ùzami": la muneta vulendu stà spentu, le arme dezidrandu uçìdr, e le mutte vane."

Can someone do it in Spanish or other Romance languages?


Last edited by Kiri on Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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LingoDingo
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eldin raigmore wrote:
LingoDingo wrote:

existence-0.ACT-0.IND-VBZ.3.SG.PRS three thing-PL.NOM scream-0.ACT-VBZ.PRS.INF end-*_lessness*-ADV use-0.ACT-VBZ.2.IMP 1.SG.ACC money-0.SG.NOM expenditure-PAS-OPT-0.V.NMZ-0.SG-GEN.SG.NOM and weapon-0.SG.NOM murder-OPT-0.V.NMZ-0.SG-GEN.SG.NOM and word-0.SG.NOM meaningless-0.SG-GEN.SG.NOM
....
I also separated the words in the gloss with colors to make them easier to see the beginning and end of each one.


Do the colors mean anything?


Nope. I just wanted to make the words easier to tell apart.

Spanish:

Hay tres cosas que gritan sin parar, “Úsame”: el dinero que quiere ser gastado, las armas que quieren matar, y las palabras vanas.
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Constructed Languages: Aalsen, Aalmok Repurpose, Samamisu

.aď sodai peťâs sokâs na asnâ;šustâs buntai mokâ aaťal. - One never truly knows a culture until they learn its language.
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