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Conmath: Geingnorsh Notation Dirty Version (GNDV)

 
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Zearen Wover



Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:45 am    Post subject: Conmath: Geingnorsh Notation Dirty Version (GNDV) Reply with quote

I wasn't sure where to but this, but decided the dirty version was more of a rewriting then a new math. The clean version, which is not yet completed, is certainly alien enough to our mathematics, that I'd classify it under conlang. It's based on recursion of functions, starting with only two functions and an inversion marker, o, c and c. . Alas I have a lot of math to work out with this version, thus I will demonstrate DV (Dirty Version)

An overview of the script using the actual glyphs can be found here: fig. 1

This script has the advantage that variable numbers and numbers are always strait lines and dots where variable functions and functions are lines and at least one curve.

However, it can still be written with Latin characters, using Arabic numerals. The main idea is that everything is a function. c is the addition function, adding one to the given value. All functions have an inferred open parentheses, close parentheses is '|'. Eg.

c1|=2
c2|=3

o is technically a recursion marker, fzox| meaning 'take f(x) of itself z times'. Eg, f3ox| = f(f(f(x))). In FV (Formal Version), f0ox| = x for all f. A function followed by a dot means invert the function in FV, though it's used rather loosely in DV.

italics indicate standard notation or SN
cx|=x+1
czox|=x+z
c.x|=-x *In FV, this is x-1, one must write cxo0| for -x
c.zox|=x-z *Note that the arguments are reversed!

FV bases all other functions off c. DV however explicitly defines each function based on SN. Look at fig.1 to see the rest of the DV definitions. Note that exponentiation is e in latin, so:

ezox|=x^z *Notice how this is also backwards.

If one wants to add or multiply more than two numbers, one must use multiple functions, Ie

x+z+v=cvoczox||

Here are some more examples: fig. 2

What do you guys think, or do any of you have a conmath?
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Kiri



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
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Location: Latvia/Italy

PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry, but the only way of me possibly understanding what you just said would be face-to-face in Latvian Very Happy

I don't know about conmath as a whole, but some here have non-decimal number systems, if you're interested in that.
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Aert



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I developed a simple Chemistry notation that's helpful for biochem and basically anything with rings, if you're interested.

The letters are all the normal elements, but you could change them to whatever.
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the idea of conmath a lot. I'm just not enough of a math person to develop my own (though I might in the future, to give more depth to my conworld).

I think I understand what you're saying, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment on it.
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Serali
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well math is not my subject but I have to say I find this fascinating indeed. I love the scripts.


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Dhanus
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is very interesting. I look forward to seeing more.
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Kiri



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, can anyone tell me the concept of a conmath, as itself? I mean, 2+2=4, and nothing can change that. Or am I wrong?
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Zearen Wover



Joined: 09 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiri wrote:
Actually, can anyone tell me the concept of a conmath, as itself? I mean, 2+2=4, and nothing can change that. Or am I wrong?


If you use base 4, 2+2=10, or if you want to be really alien in base 3, 2+2=11. Really, the truth is so much can be changed, that even the definition of what "math" is can become stretched.
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Kiri



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zearen Wover wrote:
Kiri wrote:
Actually, can anyone tell me the concept of a conmath, as itself? I mean, 2+2=4, and nothing can change that. Or am I wrong?


If you use base 4, 2+2=10, or if you want to be really alien in base 3, 2+2=11. Really, the truth is so much can be changed, that even the definition of what "math" is can become stretched.


I'm not sure I'm following. Or we have different deffinitions of the term "base" Smile
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Tolkien_Freak



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Base" as in 'how many numbers do you count until you rewrite it one-zero'.

So base 10 is 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10.

Emitare uses base 8, which is 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 10. (10 = what in English is called 'eight')

So for base 4 you have 1 2 3 10, and base 3 is 1 2 10.

Yeah, two plus two equals four, but you might end up writing that four as one-zero or one-one.
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Kiri



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes all that is true, but what I'm saying is that two plus two equals four no matter if you write it as 8, 10, 14 or 98.
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Tolkien_Freak



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes.

So a conmath is merely a different way to write numbers, not different numbers.
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Kiri



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, that's what I wanted to know Smile
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Hemicomputer



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having learned much more math since when you first posted this, I think I get it now (though 'translating' the notated equations is still a mental workout).

So, some questions: You provide a differentiation function and an anti-differentiation function as the inverse of that; how would you write a definite integral? How would you write a limit? What contexts are the dirty/clean versions used in?

Also,
Achemel wrote:
I developed a simple Chemistry notation that's helpful for biochem and basically anything with rings, if you're interested.

I would definitely be interested in seeing that. Especially as I'll be doing AP chemistry and probably a lot biochem next year, and I'm a slow note-taker.
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Tolkien_Freak



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hemicomputer wrote:
Having learned much more math since when you first posted this, I think I get it now.


You've brought the topic to my attention again and I've had the same experience ^_^

I have similar questions to the above, and I'd like to see a list of what functions there are.
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achemel



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hemicomputer wrote:
Achemel wrote:
I developed a simple Chemistry notation that's helpful for biochem and basically anything with rings, if you're interested.



Ahaha... Not me, that was Aert. XD I have never taken a chemistry class and never plan to - waaaaaaaaaaaaay over my head.

I agree this is a really interesting concept, but I have to be satisfied with just looking at it in awe. I can do the simple math required to balance my checkbook and that's it, so making language and script out of it just blows my mind. It's really cool, though. Very Happy
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Hemicomputer



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

achemel wrote:
Hemicomputer wrote:
Achemel wrote:
I developed a simple Chemistry notation that's helpful for biochem and basically anything with rings, if you're interested.



Ahaha... Not me, that was Aert.

Embarassed Sorry! I just looked really quickly at the name and saw an "a" at the front. Embarassed Rolling Eyes
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hemicomputer wrote:
achemel wrote:
Ahaha... Not me, that was Aert.
Embarassed Sorry! I just looked really quickly at the name and saw an "a" at the front. Embarassed Rolling Eyes
I often struggle to tell Aert and Aeetlrcreejl apart from each other. So far I think I've always caught my mistakes before posting. Or haven't I?
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Zearen Wover



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hemicomputer wrote:
Having learned much more math since when you first posted this, I think I get it now (though 'translating' the notated equations is still a mental workout).

So, some questions: You provide a differentiation function and an anti-differentiation function as the inverse of that; how would you write a definite integral? How would you write a limit? What contexts are the dirty/clean versions used in?


The dirty version is used more as a rewriting of contemporary mathematics, so it's not entirely self consistent. Still, it doesn't always maintain the same semantics. For definite integrals, think indefinite integral, interval evaluation and composition. Alternatively we could add optional parameters like PA'T'xofx|| for the integral from A to T. For example, I didn't have a symbol for a limit, but it would be trivial to invent it. For example:

mx'Aofx|| := lim(x→A) f(x)

This is where DV and CV separate. In CV, every function is defined as a recursion and every function must have an inverse. It's based on different mathematics, namely lambda calculus and church numerals. But there are a lot of kinks in it, particularly non-integer composition, so I don't feel prepared to demonstrate it yet. I actually haven't worked on it much since when I posted this as I'm far too busy with school. I miss conlanging Sad .
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need to look at this better when I have more time.
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