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Changes in Your Conlang
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dusepo



Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 129

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have mainly changed the rules and stuff of Retafon.

For instance, I have decided that two vowels or consonants are no longer allowed together (making Retfon into Retafon!)

I have also changed a few of the sounds.
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kyonides



Joined: 28 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmm, I guess I should mention the recent verb conjugation reform and some (new) terms added to Kexyana lately... Well, some of those terms were just "kexyasnam" terms for words that originally came from natural languages like English, German, Spanish, Greek, Latin and required to be replaced with more acceptable terms.

OT
Err... should I say replaced with, by? Or what preposition should I use then?
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Hemicomputer



Joined: 04 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kyonides wrote:

Err... should I say replaced with, by? Or what preposition should I use then?

"Replaced with" and "replaced by" are both acceptable options.

Some more details on the "verb conjugation reform" would be nice, please.
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if I ever wrote down that Adpihi and Reptigan would be "Subject-Prominent"; but I thought it, and I've changed my mind. They won't be.
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kyonides



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if they won't be "Subject-Prominent", what would they be then?

Quote:
Some more details on the "verb conjugation reform" would be nice, please.

No problem, just look at my latest post in Kexyana, my first conlang thread.
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kyonides wrote:
So if they won't be "Subject-Prominent", what would they be then?
"non-Subject-Prominent". I haven't yet decided whether they'll be "Topic-Prominent"; I suspect they will, but I'll have to think about it some more. (Some natlangs are both SP and TP, and some are neither SP nor TP, though I think the pros think most natlangs are one or the other but not both.)
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Word-order type" of Adpihi and Reptigan.

They have a "backward-looking pivot" which for convenience I am going to call "Topic" (though maybe it won't always be a "topic" in the usual sense). And, they have a "forward-looking pivot" which for convenience I am going to call "Focus" (though maybe it won't always be a "focus" in the usual sense).

Many or most clauses may have a "topic"; independently, many or most clauses may have a "focus".

I am going to say the Topic always comes first (if there is one), the Focus always comes last (if there is one), and unless some other constituent is the Topic, or the Verb is the Focus, the Verb comes first.

I am going to handle here only the situations in which the "topic" and the "focus" are not the same constituent. But I'm going to handle the possibility that either there is no topic or there is no focus or there is neither a topic nor a focus.

For monovalent clauses (with an Subject and a Verb), here are the rules.
If there is no topic or the Verb is the topic, and there is no focus or the Subject is the focus, the V comes before the S.
But if the S is the topic or the V is the focus, the order is S V.
So both orders VS and SV occur; but SV is marked, so VS is "dominant".

For bivalent monotransitive clauses (with an Actor and an Undergoer and a Verb), here are the rules.
If there is no topic or the Verb is the topic, and the V is not the focus, then the V comes first.
If the Actor is the topic, it comes first; if the Undergoer is the topic, it comes first.
If the Verb is the focus, it comes last; if the Actor is the focus, it comes last; if the Undergoer is the focus, it comes last.
The Verb comes before anything that isn't the topic, unless the V is the focus.
The Actor comes before the Undergoer, unless the A is the focus or the U is the topic.
So the orders AUV AVU UAV UVA VAU VUA all occur. But AVU and UVA are marked; for AVU the A must be the topic, and for UVA the U must be the topic. And, AUV and VUA are marked; for AUV the V must be the focus, and for VUA the A must be the focus. And, UAV is very marked; it must have U for the topic and V for the focus. But VAU is unmarked, so it is the "dominant" order.

For bivalent intransitive clauses (with a Subject and an Extended core term and a Verb), here are the rules.
If there is no topic or the Verb is the topic, and the V is not the focus, then the V comes first.
If the Subject is the topic, it comes first; if the Extension is the topic, it comes first.
If the Verb is the focus, it comes last; if the Subject is the focus, it comes last; if the Extension is the focus, it comes last.
The Verb comes before anything that isn't the topic, unless the V is the focus.
The Subject comes before the Extension, unless the S is the focus or the E is the topic.
So the orders VSE SVE EVS VES SEV ESV all occur. But SVE and EVS are marked; for SVE the S must be the topic, and for EVS the E must be the topic. And, SEV and VES are marked; for SEV the V must be the focus, and for VES the S must be the focus. And, ESV is very marked; it must have E for the topic and V for the focus. But VSE is unmarked, so it is the "dominant" order.

For trivalent ditransitive clauses (with an Actor and an Undergoer and an Extension and a Verb), here are the rules.
If there is no topic or the Verb is the topic, and the V is not the focus, then the V comes first.
If the Actor is the topic, it comes first; if the Undergoer is the topic, it comes first; if the Extension is the topic, it comes first.
If the Verb is the focus, it comes last; if the Actor is the focus, it comes last; if the Undergoer is the focus, it comes last; if the Extension is the focus, it comes last.
The Verb comes before anything that isn't the topic, unless the V is the focus.
The Actor comes before the Undergoer, unless the A is the focus or the U is the topic.
The Actor comes before the Extension, unless the A is the focus or the E is the topic.
The Undergoer comes before the Extension, unless the U is the focus or the E is the topic.
So the orders VAUE AVUE UVAE EVAU AUEV VUEA VAEU AVEU UVEA UAEV EAUV EVUA all occur. But AVUE UVAE EVAU are marked; for AVUE the A must be the topic, for UVAE the U must be the topic, for EVAU the E must be the topic. And, AUEV VUEA VAEU are marked; for AUEV the V must be the focus, for VUEA the A must be the focus, for VAEU the U must be the focus. And, AUEV AVEU UAEV UVEA EAUV EVUA EVAU are very marked. AUEV and AVEU have A for topic, UAEV and UVEA have U for topic, and EAUV EVUA EVAU have E for topic. And, UVEA EVUA must have A for focus, AVEU EVAU must have U for focuse, AUEV UAEV EAUV must have V for focus.
But VAUE is unmarked; so it is the "dominant" word-order.

Note that the Verb always comes either first, or second, or last.
When there are only two or three constituents, that means it can come anywhere; but when there are four or more, it never comes third nor next-to-last.
The verb always comes first in unmarked order; but there are so many orders in which it comes second (including whenever the V isn't the focus and something other than the V is the topic) that these languages might be considered "tending toward verb-second".

-----------

By the way, that also means that these two languages are Topic-Prominent.
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know whether this is so much a "change" as a "firming up of my decision".

I've decided which colors Adpihi and the Human dialect(s) of Reptigan will have basic colorterms for. (But I have not yet decided what those basic colorterms will be.)

The five-name grey-scale will, of course include
black and
white and
grey (50%), and will consist of those plus
grey (75%) and
grey (25%).

The 100%-saturated hues of medium (50%) lightness that have basic colorterms will be
red,
yellow,
green,
blue,
orange,
chartreuse (spring green, maybe? better name for this color, anyone?),
cyan (fall green?), and
purple.

Note one might think of orange as halfway between red and yellow;
of chartreuse as halfway between yellow and green;
of cyan as halfway between green and blue;
and of purple as halfway between red and blue.

They'll be paralelled by a set of eight light colors, a set of eight dark colors, and a set of eight unsaturated colors.
You can think of the light colors as halfway between white and a pure hue; of the dark colors as halfway between black and a pure hue; and of the unsaturated colors as halfway between 50% grey and a pure hue.

The eight dark colors:
dark red (is this blood-red?),
dark yellow (is this olive?),
dark green (is this forest green?),
dark blue (is this Navy blue?),
dark orange (is this brown, or chocolate brown?),
dark chartreuse (better name, anyone?),
dark cyan (is this teal?), and
dark purple (kind of a "mountain sundown purple", I guess?).

The eight light colors:
light red (this is one of the pinks; maybe salmon-pink?),
light yellow (better name?),
light green (better name?),
light blue (sky-blue?),
light orange (cream?),
light chartreuse (better name, anyone?),
light cyan (better name?), and
light purple (lavender?).

The eight 50%-saturated colors of medium (50%) lightness:
greyish red (better name?),
greyish yellow (better name?),
greyish green (better name?),
greyish blue (is this "air-superiority blue"?),
greyish orange (is this "tan" or "beige"?),
greyish chartreuse (better name for this color, anyone?),
greyish cyan (better name?), and
greyish purple (is this "mauve"?).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At the same time, Adpihi maps will be east-oriented; and there will be eight basic compass-direction-terms for use on maps, corresponding to:
East
West
South
North
SouthEast
NorthEast
SouthWest
NorthWest.

But I also intend to have non-basic terms for ESE, ENE, NNE, SSE, WSW, WNW, SSW, and NNW.

For a person-centered set of direction terms, there will be eight for use in horizontal directions; these will be similar to, but not the same as, the compass-directions:
straight ahead ~~ East
straight behind ~~ West
to the right ~~ South
to the left ~~ North
ahead-and-to-the-right ~~ SouthEast
ahead-and-to-the-left ~~ NorthEast
behind-and-to-the-right ~~ SouthWest
behind-and-to-the-left ~~ NorthWest

But I intend to also have non-basic terms for directions between them. That, however, is not so firm a decision yet.


In the plane that includes both straight-ahead and straight-behind as well as straight-up and straight-down, there'll also be eight basic terms; four that mean those four directions and four that mean halfway between two of those four.
straight up
straight down
straight ahead
straight behind
up and ahead
up and back
down and ahead
down and back

But I intend to also have non-basic terms for directions between them.
That, also, is not so firm a decision yet.


In the plane that includes both right and left as well as straight-up and straight-down, there'll also be eight basic terms; four that mean those four directions and four that mean halfway between two of those four.
straight up
straight down
right
left
up and right
up and left
down and right
down and left

Again, I intend to have non-basic terms for directions between them.
Again, that is not so firm a decision yet.

I want to also have terms, but maybe non-basic terms, for:
up-ahead-right
up-ahead-left
up-behind-right
up-behind-left
down-ahead-right
down-ahead-left
down-behind-right
down-behind-left

If I do all that I'll have 50 direction-terms (eighteen of them basic).
I don't think that's too many; is it?
But there's still 48 more directions I'd like to be able to specify; I guess maybe I'd just say "between direction-X and direction-Y" for those, using the terms I've already mentioned.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Though Adpihi has a dozenal (base-twelve) monetary system and a dozenal numeral system, the culture has a penchant for dividing complete circles or complete cycles into eight parts. That includes the year and the day (actually there are 16 Adpihi "hours" in a nycthemeron; so they have a two-"hour" morning, a two-"hour" forenoon, a two-"hour" afternoon, and a two-"hour" evening, in the light half of that (the "day"), and then the night could also be divided into four equal two-"hour" parts -- post-sundown, pre-midnight, post-midnight, and pre-dawn), as well as the color-wheel and the compass-rose.

I might have the compass-rose and the color-wheel correspond to one another.
I might have the ahead-up-behind-down set of directions correspond to the times of day.
I haven't decided on either of those yet.
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Aert



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're doing basic colour terms and want a bit of study to base them on, I can send you some papers we looked at in my language and thought class.

also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity_and_the_color_naming_debate
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