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Vreleksá The Alurhsa Word for Constructed: Creativity in both scripts and languages
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Aert
Joined: 03 Jul 2008 Posts: 354
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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:55 am Post subject: Tonal Conlang |
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Hey,
I'm thinking about adding tones to a conlang I'm working on, and I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions for assigning tones and etc.
Most likely I'm just going to have two tones - high=rising and low=falling.
If people have links to Good tonal conlangs, that would be great
Also: if a language is tonal, does Every vowel/vowel cluster have to have a (non-neutral) tone? |
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Tolkien_Freak
Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 1231 Location: in front of my computer. always.
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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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If it's starting out tonal, to the best of my knowledge you can put tones wherever you want.
Quote: | high=rising and low=falling |
Do you mean that there's a tone that can be realised as either high or rising, and one that can be realised as either low or falling?
Quote: | Also: if a language is tonal, does Every vowel/vowel cluster have to have a (non-neutral) tone? |
No - a lot of tonal languages have a neutral tone.
I don't know any other good tonal conlangs, though, sorry T_T |
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Hemicomputer
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 610 Location: Calgary, Alberta
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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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A good tonal conlang, one I've actually been trying to teach myself, is Suzette Elgin's Láadan. You can find a good overview on this site, and the wikipedia page is pretty good as well.
Other than that, I think Aeetlrcreejl has some tonal conlangs. Perhaps he could lend a few words on the subject. _________________ Bakram uso, mi abila, / del us bakrat, dahud bakrita! |
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achemel
Joined: 29 Mar 2009 Posts: 556 Location: up for debate
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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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I think some African languages have tone, though I couldn't tell you any names off the top of my head. I know there are some that only have two tones, though, so you could work with those - I'll try to get some names for you after class. There are also clicky languages with tones - you might be interested to see how those interact and then see if you want specific phonology to affect the tone of each syllable. I have a conlang I was working on a while ago where /a/ and /u/ were automatically high and /e/ and /i/ were automatically low, so combinations of the two tones would create rising and falling, and two of the same tone would create (in the case of a diphthong) an extended high tone or (in the case of the same vowel repeated) a neutral tone.
And I agree with Hemicomputer. It could be good to look at Láadan, though it certainly has a bunch more interesting points. (^_^) |
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Hemicomputer
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 610 Location: Calgary, Alberta
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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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achemel wrote: | I think some African languages have tone, though I couldn't tell you any names off the top of my head. I know there are some that only have two tones... | Yorùbá could one of those, though it has three tones. On the subject of natlangs, Navajo is also a tonal language. Navajo tone was actually likely the inspiration for Láadan tone; Ms. Elgin studied the language when doing her linguistics degree and the phonologies match up very closely. achemel wrote: | I have a conlang I was working on a while ago where /a/ and /u/ were automatically high and /e/ and /i/ were automatically low...(interesting details cut)... | That is a really cool idea! I'm surprised by your choices for tone, though. I've noticed people naturally lower their voice for /u/ and /o/ and such sounds, and raise their voice for /i/ and /e/ type sounds. Or at least that I do that. Maybe it's dialectal?
achemel wrote: | And I agree with Hemicomputer. It could be good to look at Láadan, though it certainly has a bunch more interesting points. (^_^) | Bíi áya Láadan wi! Báa di ne Láadaneth? _________________ Bakram uso, mi abila, / del us bakrat, dahud bakrita! |
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Aert
Joined: 03 Jul 2008 Posts: 354
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Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:26 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the links
Láadan looks interesting, I'll take a thorough look when I have the time!
I didn't know Navajo had tones, but I'll take a good look at that especially, as it's a highly synthetic language (I think), which should result in similar properties to mine. Yorùbá too
Quote: | achemel wrote:
I have a conlang I was working on a while ago where /a/ and /u/ were automatically high and /e/ and /i/ were automatically low...(interesting details cut)...
Quote: | That is a really cool idea! I'm surprised by your choices for tone, though. I've noticed people naturally lower their voice for /u/ and /o/ and such sounds, and raise their voice for /i/ and /e/ type sounds. Or at least that I do that. Maybe it's dialectal? |
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Actually I agree with Hemicomputer - I'm pretty sure my conlang is going to have /i/ as high only, and /u/ as low only, with /a, e, o/ as being able to take either one. |
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eldin raigmore Admin
Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 1621 Location: SouthEast Michigan
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Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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You should look up tonogenesis. Wikipedia wrote: | The historical origin of tone is called tonogenesis, a term coined by James Matisoff. |
Quote: | Tonogenesis is the appearance of contrasting tone in a previously non-tonal language, generally as a result of regular phonological changes. | There are lots of papers about it. Some are about specific languages; some about specific linguistic areas; some about specific "genetic" groupings (e.g. language "families"); and some about tonal languages in general. More than one theory of tonogenesis is discussed.
The theory I'm most familar with is, that as coda consonants disappear off the ends of syllables (through whatever sound-change process they disappear because of), they get "cheshirized" as tones -- leaving their mark as the tone of the nuclear vowel which precedes them in the syllable.
I recommend you read the whole Wikipedia article on Tone_(linguistics).
And good luck and happy conlanging to you! _________________ "We're the healthiest horse in the glue factory" - Erskine Bowles, Co-Chairman of the deficit reduction commission |
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achemel
Joined: 29 Mar 2009 Posts: 556 Location: up for debate
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Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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So, one of the languages I was thinking of was Lingala, and thank you for mentioning Yoruba because it entirely slipped my mind. A search turned up Koti, Amazonian languages Te and Re, though honestly these were part of a preview of a book on Amazon (haha, imagine that) and I don't have a link for them, and while it might not be helpful I thought this article was quite interesting. Sorry I don't have more.
I'm not really sure why I picked the low vowels for high tone and the high for low tone in my conlang... probably the same lack of reason I picked /f/ for [v] and /v/ for [f] in Hemnalg. XD I'm thinking of revising that, btw.
@Hemicomputer: I do not, unfortunately, speak Laadan, though I got the gist of your question. I have a strong interest in it, though, and hope to pick up some of it in the near future. |
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eldin raigmore Admin
Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 1621 Location: SouthEast Michigan
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:16 am Post subject: |
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achemel wrote: | @Hemicomputer: I do not, unfortunately, speak Laadan | Nobody does; it's a conlang. But you already knew that -- right? _________________ "We're the healthiest horse in the glue factory" - Erskine Bowles, Co-Chairman of the deficit reduction commission |
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achemel
Joined: 29 Mar 2009 Posts: 556 Location: up for debate
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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of course. but i'm sure there are people who have learned, as there are people who've learned klingon and elvish and tsolyani and romulan and probably hylian and a bunch of others. i'm just saying i'm not one of them. |
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