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The Alurhsa Word for Constructed: Creativity in both scripts and languages
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eldin raigmore
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Joined: 03 May 2007
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Location: SouthEast Michigan
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 Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 7:29 pm Post subject: Sold Down the River |
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How would your conlang say what in American English is meant by "sold down the river"?
| http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/326500.html wrote: | Sold down the river
Meaning
Betrayed or cheated.
Origin
This phrase originated in the Mississippi region of the USA during slave trading days. Slaves who caused trouble were sold from the northern slave states into the much harsher conditions on plantations in the lower Mississippi.
The earliest reference I can find to the phrase in print is in The Ohio Repository, May 1837:
"One man, in Franklin County has lately realized thirty thousand dollars, in a speculation on slaves, which he bought in Virginia, and sold down the river."
The figurative use of the phrase, meaning simply to deceive or cheat, began in the early 20th century. For example, this piece from P. G. Wodehouse's Small Bachelor, 1927:
"When Sigsbee Waddington married for the second time, he to all intents and purposes sold himself down the river." |
http://www.classicbookshelf.com/library/mark_twain/the_tragedy_of_pudd_nhead_wilson/16/
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/Sold+Down+the+River
| http://www.strike-the-root.com/4/jackson/jackson7.html, which may not be a trustworthy source, says: wrote: | | ... 'sold down the river,' referring to the Black Africans who sold other Black Africans to White slave traders. Somewhere 'down the river' waited the ocean, the middle passage, and slavery in the Americas . The saying, 'I got sold down the river' was how you described a situation where a 'Judas' would betray your trust ... |
Does your conspeech community have such an idiom? (For that matter, do your real-life speech-communities have such an idiom?) If so, what is it? (Note: non-North-American English meanings of "sold down the river" are considerably milder, more humorous, and less tragic than Canadian and USAnian meanings.)
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OK, now: If you can translate "you sold me down the river" into your conlang, maybe you can translate the chorus, or the first verse, or both, of "Sold Me Down the River" by "The Alarm" from their 1989 album "Change". (Mike Peters, Dave Sharp, Eddie MacDonald, Nigel Twist) (There must be a Welsh version of this idiom, because there's a Welsh version of this song and a Welsh version of this album; "The Alarm" was, mostly, a Welsh band by origin and self-description.)
Here's the first verse:
And here's the chorus:
| http://www.autobahn.com.br/the_alarm/change.html wrote: | Come back, I'm begging you please
Come back, I'm down on my knees
Come back, I'm begging you please
I don't know why
I don't understand how
You sold me down the river
I don't know why
I don't understand how
You sold me down the river
Sold me down the river |
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Kiri
Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Latvia/Italy
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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In Latvian, ussually, to express betrayal with an idiom, usually we say "stabbed a dagger in the back" = "iedūra dunci mugurā"
Actually there are a lot of idioms for how people could've done something unexpectedly nasty (ussually to the speaker)
For instance:
spat into (my) face = iespļāva (man) sejā
~This one is used for "I can't believe that he did that to me without even blinking an eye, so obviously as if he couldn't care less" kind of feeling.
spat into (my) soul = iespļāva (man) dvēselē
pooed into (my) soul = iekakāja (man) dvēselē
sh** into (my) soul = iedirsa (man) dvēselē
~This is more like "I trusted him all my soul, but he *** in it and betrayed me! How dare he!" |
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Tolkien_Freak
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 1:55 am Post subject: |
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Ah, I wish I had Emitare as far as idioms....
'Backstab' seems to be a common depiction of this concept cross-culturally, Japanese at least has 'uragiru' (back-cutting). |
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kyonides
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 301
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 6:00 am Post subject: |
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Well, even in Spanish you find a literally translation like "me apuñaló por la espalda (el muy cobarde)" ~(the coward-superlative ??) or has another idioms like "me clavó un puñal directo en el corazón" (he/she stabbed me straight at my heart ??) but this one doesn't always mean there is a traitor but also may lead you think someone disappointed you a lot or stopped you from thinking you'd achieve a specific goal like getting married to that pretty girl or anything else. "Es un judás" (he/she is a Judah) is pretty obvious for those living in Christian communities. In Costa Rica we could name people "rata" or "sapo" (rat or frog) because they were as treacherous as to do something against your will or everybody's will, even if it isn't as serious as selling your country's welfare, education system or stock market to the highest bidder to get your pockets full of money. For example, it's typical that we call someone "sapo" and start croac'ing just because a nerd reminded the teacher or professor of some assignment he left last week and almost forgot to collect the respective papers from his students. "Rata" is harsher, being compared with a rat isn't what everybody would like to hear, especially if you know that you cheated to achieve something like stealing your friend's girlfriend or not confessing you stole something and making all of your friends become the main suspects on that crime investigation whether or not you're included in the detective's list. The most recent example would be when some congressmen decide that they should earn almost 90% more because a magistrate earns a lot more than they do, especially if the congressmen are the only ones that can't prevent that from ever happening.
" ??" - not completely sure if that's how I should translate it in English
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eldin raigmore
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Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1621
Location: SouthEast Michigan
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, English also has the expression "stabbed in the back".
But I believe it has (at least slightly) different connotations than "sold down the river".
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