Vreleksá

achemel · Joined: 29 Mar 2009 Posts: 556 Location: up for debate

Ddamychal

Current alphabet:
a e i o u w y ò ó iá é b ch d dd f g gh h kh khg kht l ll m n p r s sh t th z zh
[a e i o u ʌ ɪ œ we je jo b/v x d ð f g g/j h k kw kʃ l ɬ m n p r s ʃ t θ z ʒ]

Note, e/_# consistently becomes [ə] following voiced stops, nasals, and the affricate cluster /kht/, and [ɛ] following voiceless stops, fricatives, the other affricates, and some vowels (namely /o u é i/). While it may be pronounced [ɛ] anyway in most of the time, its generally accepted standard pronunciation is in fact the tenser form, [e].

/b/=[v] rather randomly; this stems from an older spelling /bh/ which contrasted with /b/, wherein the former was [B] and the latter [b], and /bh/ became [v] and eventually the spelling was lost altogether.

/gh/ as [j] between vowels and occasionally word-finally, when it sounds more like [M\], which was its original sound.

Pronouns:
I(m) – syn
I(f) – sh
I (formal) – sech
I(less formal) – se

You(formal) – se
You – o
You(inf., m) – chwn

It – el, chel
He – ar
She – arhe

We – bir

They (people) – mos, mésta (polite)
They (other) – elin, heth

There are direct and indirect object pronouns for all of these as well (all first singular pronouns are grouped as one, all second pronouns are grouped, and all third plural are grouped):

IDOP:
Me – sa
You – ta/tan

It – y
Him – hir
Her – he

Us – sut, ylbi (more formal/polite)

Them – iát

DOP:
Me – sha/ha
You – or

It – yf
Him/he – la
She – ro

We/us – al

They/them – nar

There are also possessive pronouns:

My – sa mé, sam

Your – o mé, osh

Its – chel/el mé, cheig
His – ar mé, ami
Her – arhe mé, armo

Our – ylbi mé, sume, ylsh

Their (people) – reig, riág
Their (other) – mil

Generally speaking, the second options are less formal/polite, and precede the object of possession: e.g. “my dog” = sam folze.
The first options don’t have to go first; placing them after the word may sound more polite, poetic, or just make you sound smarter: e.g. “his father” = ar mé setne, setne ar mé.
A third option is to do it like Spanish (a heavily-contributing grammatical ancestor) and use /of/ - e.g. “his father/ father of he” = setne khw ar.

Again generally speaking, the object pronouns have fallen mostly out of use altogether, except in some cases such as suffixation to verbs (as in Spanish “I want to read it” /quiero que leerlo/ <--- correct this if it's wrong - it's been over 3 years since I spoke any Spanish) and in a couple of the possessive pronouns (namely /my/ and /our/). Among the more properly educated, IDOPs are used with prepositions and such: e.g. “to her” /ahe/ or “from them (people)” /im iát/.

Articles:
Definite (the) – al-
When numbers or the adjectives /good/ or /bad/ occur with a noun, they fall before it and separate it from the definite article:
e.g. “the house” /al-madder/ vs. “the three houses” /al pe madderin/. Really this issue with hyphenation matters only in writing, but it’s good to know that “good/bad” and numbers precede nouns.

Indefinite (a/an) – ga(n)-
This works the same way as the definite article, in regard to splitting it from its noun, but it generally doesn’t go with numbers. It does, however, go with quantitative measures like “some” and “many,” which also precede nouns rather than follow them:
“thing” /etw/, “a thing” /gan-etw/, “a few things” /ga gara etwnan/ or /gan gara etwnan/. When separated from the noun, /gan/ often is used when the next word beings with a vowel other than /a/, and the consonants /g k t d n/.

Nouns:
Nouns are pluralized fairly regularly through suffixation of /in/ after consonants and /nan/ after vowels. However, some words have been set as collective nouns and no longer are pluralized, such as “people” /demad/. Some nouns that may be considered collective in other languages are considered plural in Ddamychal, such as “group” /tyndwnan/ (and an individual in a group is just /tyndw/) or “family” /óchilin/ (and a family member is /óchil/). Pluralization of these already plural nouns (“groups” and “families”) is done through the addition of whichever pluralization wasn’t used: /tyndwnan/ becomes /tyndwnanin/ and /óchilin/ becomes /óchilinan/, where the /n/ cluster is simplified. In the case of any of this sort of non-collective collective noun, both the singular and plural would cause the verb in a sentence to be plural also.

"The family goes" - óchilin hent
"The families go" - óchilinan hent
But, "The family member goes" - óchil he - here it's been reduced to a single unit rather than a plural/collective.

Prepositions etc.:
In/at – kha, che
On – kha
To – a, e
For – í
From – im
By – ze;
Out (of) – ser
Of – khw; mé in possession
With – talat

In combination with the definite article, some of these contract:
In the – khal, chal
On the – khal
Of the – khal; mél, mal
By the – zel
With the – tal-

“With” causes some changes with the pronouns I/you/we, as follows: with me /talsa/ with you /talo/ /talta/ with us /talut/.
Come with me – menhem talsa.
He wants to speak with you – isyl ar ma iaf talo/talta.
Play with us! – shuem talut!

"To" /a/ is used also to mark an infinitive verb when in combination with another, like Spanish /que/. A variant of this is /ma/:

I want to see - ysish a/ma naós
I need to have it!! - fedosh a/ma heraddyf!!

Adjectives: except for the ones mentioned under “articles” they fall after the noun, generally in this order: color, shape, size, other. Within those categories the speaker can put what he feels is most important first, for example, a multi-colored box would have its colors listed in the order that jumps out the most – perhaps one person sees red and yellow more quickly than someone who favors blue and purple. This sort of thing happens between my mother and myself when we shop for clothes, and try to remember what we already have so we can buy matching things, and she’ll either fail to remember altogether or describe something so differently from how I know it we quickly get confused, give up, and go get some ice cream or coffee and take a break. Laughing

ANYWAY.

Verbs:
Transitive verbs tend to have little regularization except when an intransitive partner is available, in which case the transitive may be marked with a final /-m/ and the intransitive with a final /-d/. Sometimes these final consonants get a little mutated; /m/ usually becomes /b/ and sometimes /f/, and /d/ almost always becomes /dd/.

Examples:
Use (trans.) – seth

Start (trans.) – raplach
Start (intrans.) – raplad

Increase (trans.) – sytam
Increase (intrans.) – sytad

There are two verbs for “be” – the temporary/locative, /hesat/, used for being in a place, feeling emotion, being ill, weather, and in referencing the government, and /halath/, used for everything else. /hesat/ is used also as an auxiliary for the gerund form of other verbs (and itself, I suppose) as described somewhere below.

In the present tense the final consonant is dropped, and the correct person affix is… affixed. Suffixed.

Use – seth, se-th; root – se

Verb affixes, formal/polite:
I (m) – ia/la
I (f) – si
You – bin/bé
It – (verb root)/ ach
We – ot/uth, sut/suth
They – ent/ni

Past – ukh/rath/tor
Future – égh/ézh
Copula shortened as polite colloquial – ‘hal
Negation prefixed as polite colloquial – na/no-, ma-

So:

I use - sela/seia, sesi
you use - sebin, sebé
it uses - se, seach
we use - seot/seuth, sesut/sesuth
they use - sent (simplification here), seni

used - seukh/serath/setor
will use - seégh, seézh

doesn't use - nase, nose, mase (or all of these with hyphens: na-se, no-se, ma-se)

Verbal affixes common/casual:
I (m) – -a
I (f) – -s
You – -b
It – (just the verb root)
We – -t
They – -nt; -ni (when the former creates a long consonant cluster)

Past – -kh
Future – -é
Copula shortened as slang – ‘l
Possession shortened as slang – ‘n
Negation prefixed – n-
Often with these affixations there is epenthesis of the schwa /w/ to reduce consonant clustering, though in the case of word-final clusters they may be reduced.

Example: “you talk” /iaf/ + /b/ = /iafb/, +/w/ = /iafwb/ [jafəb]
In this particular example, the verb is in fact irregular, in that its infinitive form /iaf/ is also the form used with the affixes, rather than becoming /ia/.

Example: "they don't use" /n-/ + /se/ + /nt/ = n-sent, nw-sent.

Past /kh/ is made pluperfect with further suffixation of /un/ or /el/ - have – /heradd/ had - /herakh/ did have - /herakhun/ /herakhel/. Another option (used by the lesser people; the previously described is for higher society, generally speaking) is to add the other proper perfect suffix, in whichever order (of /kh/ and /rath/ the latter is more proper-sounding and often comes last, but according to speaker’s preference) – had /herakh/ did have /herakhrath/ /herarathkh/ or /herakhath/ (/r/ absorbed). The third ending /tor/ is used in recount and at court, royal or legal.

Tenses can be added in whatever order makes sense, before the personal affixes:
I will go – heésh
I went – hekhs/ hekhes, heraths/herathas
I did go – hekhels/hekhraths/hekhrathas
I will have gone – heékhels (go-fut-plup.-I(f)) – here you could simply say “I will went” /heékhs/ /heékhes/

Negation:
There are two negating words, “no” and “not,” which are used pretty much as in English:
No – nabret, na/ne (informal)
Not – nath, nat

While “not” is the acceptable word to use in negating a verb, the informal word for “no” has become the polite colloquial prefix, as has the morphemic root of “bad,” /madba/ -- /ma/.

The imperative is marked with the infinitive form + /-m/ (or a matching vowel + /-m/). Example “go” = /het/ + (harmonic vowel insertion) + /-m/ = /hetem/, or “wait” = /lech/ + (harmonic vowel insertion) + /-m/ = /lechem/. Casually this can be reduced to /hem/ and /lem/ through the old method of final-consonant deletion followed by imperative affixation (then /-n/). In the case of a diphthong being in the verb (/é iá ó/), either it is used or the main vowel of the pair is used: for example, /é/ is [jo], and so the vowel inserted for the imperative could be /o/. /iá/ and /ó/ both would use /e/, being [je] and [we] respectively and ending in [e].
Some non-word examples:
sén [sjon] – imperative: séném! or, sénom!
tólt [twelt] – imperative: tóltóm! or, tóltem!
giágh [gjeg] – imperative: giághiám! or, giághem!
Etcetera.

What I'll call the gerund is formed through addition of /-tach/ to the root form, and prefixation of the definite article /al-/. This is used for the progressive tenses through combination with the temporary auxiliary /hesat/ in its correct aspect (I/we/they/etc. + pres/fut/past/etc.).
Examples:
To go – het
Going – /al-he-tach/, al-hetach
I’m going – hesas al-hetach
I will be going – hesaés al-hetach
I wash going – hesakhs al-hetach

In the case where the auxiliary itself would be in the gerund form (pretty much always in combination with another verb, for example “to avoid (being…)” the auxiliary remains in the infinitive in accordance with verb-verb combinations and the gerund of the following verb is nounalized through suffixation of /-a/, and the definite article shifts to the front of the entire grouping.

Example, “(to avoid) being angered” = /hesat/ + /manbech/ + /-tach/ + /-a/ = hesat manbetacha + /al-/ = al-hesat-manbetacha. In the case of using a verb which requires either an IDOP or DOP, either of these will be suffixed to the end of the whole thing: “(to avoid) being angered at her” – al-hesat-manbetachahe.

I can’t think of anything else to say.
Questions, comments, and all other input is welcome.
_________________
I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
Italian, Norwegian, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah

Tolkien_Freak · Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:14 am Post subject:

Some of your orthography (and the language name) looks Welsh, but the rest of it really doesn't.

I'd like to see a bigger (glossed) example.

achemel · Joined: 29 Mar 2009 Posts: 556 Location: up for debate

When I ran it through that language identifier somebody put a link to somewhere it said Welsh as well. (^_^) The name appearing to be Welsh-ish is something of a coincidence - /-chal/ (from /-che/) marks a language and /ddamy/ is the modern spelling of /ddamai/, which is a pretty old form of the name. It comes from the name of the first established city, Dhamhaoitdh [Dam_h&iD_d].

Here is an example with gloss:

Gan-oáhach gueth í ga-tob. Etheia tal hala ga-somita tazod.
gan-oáhach gueth í ga-tob. ethe-ia tal hala ga-somita t-az-od.
/a-kingdom whole for a-stone. Think-I(m) that be-PRES(3) a-trade reasonable/
An entire kingdom for a stone. I think that’s a reasonable trade.

/oáhach/ is what I like to call the "old old" spelling, because in my older dictionary it was already listed as "old." The even older form is /oaehach/, meaning "king-place," and the modern form is /óhach/.

"Reasonable" could have been formed in two other ways:
The "able" adjective morphemes are /-te/ /-tem/ and /te-(noun)-od/, all from the verb /temol/ "to can/be able."

The root of this particular adjective is actually the verb "to think/consider" /azar/. The modern root is /aza/, but the adjective takes the older root /az/. With the first two "able" morphemes especially, the verb needs to be nounalized - /az/ + /-a/ = /aza/.
"reasonable" - azate
"reasonable" - azatem
The third morpheme also is nounalized, and often causes some vowel deletion - /te/ + /aza/ + /od/ = /teazaod/. The verb root is more important than the "able" adjective, so /te/ becomes /t/, but the nounalization is already understood to have happened, and then is less important than the rest of the "able" adjective. So, it becomes more like this - /t/ + /az/ + /od/ = /tazod/. When a verb root ends on a vowel and then is made a noun, and then finally takes an adjective affix, it can become a bit much and has to be simplified.

A further note, I've discovered some colors. Actual text colors are taken from Eldin's post... somewhere. http://conscripts.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=596&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

Colors:
Ddamychal originally had a rather wide spectrum of colors recognized by individual terms, which has since been condensed a bit. While the older language recognized the colors listed below, it also had terms for paler colors and even shades of white. However, most of the more obscure terms have been lost, and replaced with combination terms such as pale-blue-white for that light shade/haze you might see on the horizon on a very sunny day. Despite such lexical revisions over time, Ddamychal still retains a separate listing “textured” colors, such as the specific brown you may find in tree bark, or the combination of tones and hues found in sandy earth – such colors imply the texture, and mention of objects having such textures (e.g. trees and sandy earth) causes a mental connection to the colors.

Modern colors include:

pink #FF8080 – llikha
Red hue=red, lightness=50%, saturation=100% - nira
not-as-dark red #AA0000 – nera (from “blood”, /neren/)
orange #FF8000 – onta
this yellowish orange color #FFAA00 - ardéa
not-as-pale yellow #FFFF55 – anycha
chartreuse #80FF00 – sela
Dark Green hue=green, lightness=25%, saturation=100% - sabia
light blue #8080FF – doma
blue #0000FF – edda
this bluish indigo color #5500FF – ddera
this dark-magenta-ish color #800080 – manna
black (chash) and white (sedema) (as “pure” colors, and varying shades of them up to the next color):
grey #808080 – mata

There is a series of lighter-toned and darker-toned colors for most of the above colors, consisting mostly of the color name and an affix meaning either “shallow” or “deep.” The lighter tones are basically pastels.

Light yellow – anyriba – Pastel Yellow hue=yellow, lightness=75%, saturation=100%
Light green – sabiariba – Pastel Green hue=green, lightness=75%, saturation=100%
Light blue – eddariba – Pastel Blue hue=blue, lightness=75%, saturation=100%
Light purple – manriba – this pastel-magenta-ish color #FF80FF
Light gray – matriba – this light grey color #AAAAAA

Dark orange – ontwtue – this reddish orange #FF5500
Dark green – sabiatue – this darker green #005500
Dark blue – eddwtue – this navy-blue-ish color #000080

The texture colors are as follows:
Tan – uasa (suggestive of skin, trees with smooth bark, baked goods, and associated with traveling); soft/smooth
Gold – ochela (suggestive of gold and anything made from it, the sun, sand, and associated with the supernatural); heat/grainy things
Silver – ia (suggestive of silver, the moon, liquids in general, stone, and associated with death); liquid/hard
Brown – ddikha (suggestive of rough things like wood/bark, earth, coarse fur, textiles, and associated with nature); rough/grainy things
"dark yellow" brown #808000 – grath (suggestive of seeds and the sensation of letting something fall from between the fingers or toes, and associated with living things); quantities of small, smooth objects

Most of the non-texture colors appear naturally; the different shades of green come not only from seasonal changes, but they also appear independently on various plants. The darker red, /nera/, could be considered a texture-color, as it stems from the word for blood, but generally it stands with the regular colors and, should one wish to describe it, “blood-red” can be made by saying “blood-like red” – /neren-nat nera/.

When using colors (such as paints or dyes) one can remove the adjective morpheme /-a/ and use the color as a noun:
For example, where we might say “Give me the blue one,” a Ddamychal speaker might just say “Give me the blue.”

Sa iánem al-edd.
I-IDOP give-IMP the-blue(n)
_________________
I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
Italian, Norwegian, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah

Tolkien_Freak · Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:25 pm Post subject:

That first sentence looks massively Irish. The oá is probably the cause.

Sadly, ATM I don't have any deeper comments.

achemel · Joined: 29 Mar 2009 Posts: 556 Location: up for debate

Tolkien_Freak · Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:37 pm Post subject:

achemel · Joined: 29 Mar 2009 Posts: 556 Location: up for debate

Yeah, Irish is pretty mind-blowing. They teach it at U. of Pittsburgh and I REALLY wanted to take it but I couldn't fit it in my schedule... or Swedish, or one of those clicky African languages. Sad

Oh, and Arabic - my class got cancelled b/c money was an issue or something. Evil or Very Mad

Hm, cases... Well, the IDOP would serve the purpose of the dative and ablative (with the correct direction indicated - to /a/ and from /im/), and the DOP is the accusative. The genitive case is marked with /mé/ when one is being grammatically correct, but there are the contracted forms as well. These all apply just to pronouns - regular nouns don't undergo any special changes. I suppose Ddamychal is nominative-accusative then...? I'm not too familiar with the categories.

Aaaand... I'll have to get back to you on the other things. Rolling Eyes

I have jumbledyjunk to sort through for the answers, ha.

Good luck with colors!
_________________
I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
Italian, Norwegian, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah

Tolkien_Freak · Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:22 am Post subject:

achemel · Joined: 29 Mar 2009 Posts: 556 Location: up for debate

Norwegian is pretty cool too, but I've more exposure to Swedish. I'm not sure that they teach Norwegian at Pitt... hmm...
Haha, Xhosa! That's totally it. They just added it as a course last year. (^_^) I always think of "The Gods Must be Crazy" when I hear Xhosa, though I'm not sure that's what they speak in it.

Ah, DOP is direct object pronoun and IDOP is indirect object pronoun... terminology from my high school Spanish class. Wink

I've never been able to think of them as anything else, and often forget that nobody else knows what the heck I'm talking about.
_________________
I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
Italian, Norwegian, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah

Tolkien_Freak · Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:41 am Post subject:

So it's like the accusative and dative forms of a pronoun? Which?

Or am I completely misunderstanding you?

achemel · Joined: 29 Mar 2009 Posts: 556 Location: up for debate

All the pronouns. Wink

Tolkien_Freak · Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:16 pm Post subject:

So it is basically the accusative and dative forms of the pronouns. Do you mark dative or accusative on nouns also?

achemel · Joined: 29 Mar 2009 Posts: 556 Location: up for debate

Regular nouns don't undergo any special change: if you want to say "I'll give it to the neighbor," you say just that:

give-FUT-I(f) it-DOP to the-neighbor
/iá-é-s yf e al-ósbach./
iáés yf e al-ósbach.
/jejos If E al-wEsvax/

And I've recalled to mind the passive voice: you take the third plural IDOP /iát/ and put it before a verb in the present tense (and this stemmed from Spanish, which I hardly remember, so it's possible it made more sense when I first came up with it).

E.g. They make good pie here (good pie is made here) <-- probably not the best example...
/they-IDOP make-PRES good pie here/
/iát ina mase pai e.
/jet ina masE pai e/

The verb is just the stem, as 3rd.s.PRES doesn't require an affix (unless you're being more formal, and I'm not - if I were, it would be /inach/).

A plural example might be:
They allow swimming and games on this beach
/they-IDOP allow-PRES-pl. swimming and game-pl. on this beach/
iát anta-ni raln ghe erath-in kha iá-helun
[b]Iát antani ralnin ghe erathin kha iá-helun[b]
/jet antani ralnin je eraTin ka je hElun/
_________________
I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
Italian, Norwegian, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah