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(V)OSV - Ylara

 
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Aert



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:18 am    Post subject: (V)OSV - Ylara Reply with quote

(Properly, lr). Anyway, YAY I finished (... lol) the grammar for it. I was hung up over the word order for the longest time, trying to do something other than SVO but I already had the SV attached, so... but then I remembered the Yoda speak! And it wasn't SVO, or OSV, it's (V)OSV (I think)!

Order: (V)OSV; (adjective) noun adjective [more important of the two first if two, otherwise after the noun]; tense-person-verb-aspect for verb conjugations; noun person for possession etc.

Orthography:

a aa /[a ] [ɑː ɒ ɔ] eɪ]/
e i ii /ɛ i iː ji/
/ɪ [aɪ ʌɪ]/
o /[ɔw oʊ] u oɪ/
u ŭ /ʌ ə ʊ/
ao eo /ɒɔw ɛɔw/

A neat little thing I FINALLY got figured out: I wanted there to be short vowels between their strict pronunciation and /ʌ/ like they do in English - so I added a new accent Very Happy ỳ are now the 'descended' vowels Very Happy

b p g d t f v s z m n l w (all the same as IPA)
c /k/ ć /tʃ/ ğ /dʒ/
Ħ,ħ /θ/ ,đ //
j /ɣ,ʝ,/
ś /ʃ/ ź /ʒ/
ń /ŋ/
r /ɹ/ ŕ /r,ɾ/
y /j/

Phonotactics: (V)C(N/y)(V) N: nasal; y: /j/

Vowel Harmony (first I've tried this, but it seems to be working preety good so far Very Happy):

CLASS 1 A a aa u / [a ] ʌ ə/
CLASS 2 O ŭ o /[ɑː ɒ ɔ] ʊ [ɔw oʊ] u/
CLASS 3 E e [i ii] /ɛ ɪ i ji/
CLASS 4* ao eo /ɔɪ [aɪ ʌɪ] [e eɪ] ɒɔw ɛɔw/
*Note: Class 4 does not change according to adjacent sounds, or with each other.
ao,eo naturally decline to a(w), e(w); or o (depending on the next vowel)
S -> S (eg -> )

Short a,e,,u,ų, Short-Long L
Mid aa,,,i,o Long-Mid [y,w]M
Long ǽ,,,, Long -Short L,L,Lų

short initial -> mid or long final
mid initial -> mid or long final
long initial -> short or mid final

ACo aaCo
OCe Ce
iCE iC
CA Cu

for optional V2 in VCV: (here, ,ao,eo are O; are E/O.)

ACV -> ACO
ECV -> ECA
OCV -> OCE

Verbs:

Person is a prefix to the verb. (There are also floating equivalents of the pronouns for other purposes such as below):
Reflexive, possessive and poss. emphatic are suffixes.

Tense is before the pronoun, and person.

Aspect is suffixed to the verb (perfective, gerund, conditional, habitual, imperative, dubitative, malefactive, benefactive).

Voices include active (intransitive), passive (transitive), and reflexive (I might add to this list later, if I find something - suggestions?)

Cases: the 'going verbs:' go to, from, into, out of, up, down, through, around, etc. (I might use some other verbs as bases for cases like this, I'm not sure yet.)
Also, comitative, instrumental, benefactive, possessive/genitive (and the negatives of all these).

Prepositions are the locative indicators (at, on, above, beside, etc). I may add to this list too.

I might use the dative case, but I'm not sure how I could use it without reverting to the NOM, ACC, DAT of some IE languages.

I'm thinking about an inherent 'to be' to go with adjectives, as well as maybe other parts of speech.

And there are some other half-formed ideas I'm working on, we'll see what happens Twisted Evil

I'll post some examples soon - I'll translate The Road Not Taken again, maybe also Anywhere Is (I should finish the S'aeryt trans. for that too).

Adios!
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twix93



Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 57
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks good so far, could you show us some examples of how the grammar is used? Like the verb tenses and stuff like that?

Aert wrote:
I'm thinking about an inherent 'to be' to go with adjectives, as well as maybe other parts of speech.

Sounds good Smile


The phonology still seems very "Englishy" to me - what about other non-English sounds such as /x/ and /c/?
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Aert



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, personally I don't really want those sounds - I do, however, have the j (/ɣ,ʝ,/). I don't have nasals for about the same reason, and they can be implied anyways. What sounds would you suggest?

I'll give some good grammar examples tomorrow - a few sentences, and hopefully a full poem Very Happy
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Kiri



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Latvia/Italy

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isn't Yoda speak VOS? At least, it is in the latvian version, I think Very Happy
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Aert



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't remember... I haven't seen those shows in so long lol

"going to the store, you are" ? Does that sound right?
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Hemicomputer



Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 610
Location: Calgary, Alberta

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone's done a detailed summary of Yoda's speech (as it is in the English version) here.
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Bakram uso, mi abila, / del us bakrat, dahud bakrita!
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Yoda's speech is VOS(aux). If it's present tense, you stick the main verb at the beginning of the sentence, but you still have to have 'do' at the end there.

I'm not quite sure if I understand what you mean when you explain (V)OSV.
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Aert



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(V)OSV:

Hmm, I think originally I was working with a phrase like "going to the store I am" order: VOSV - exept: it should be VOS(V) with the optional 'be' verb (likely elimiating it for this lang).

Most likely, what will happen here is the (V) will represent the preposition, as the motion prepositions are 'inherently verbal,' ie they are expressed (go) from; (go) to(wards); (go) forward etc.

So the original sentence should be: "to(verbal) the store I (am) going."
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I see. The V is the main verb, the (V) is a required auxiliary?
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Aert



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, not here. Aert uses auxiliaries, but (V) are the verbal prepositions (indicating movement via the verb to go). Other words may also take this position, but I`m not sure of which they are or will be yet.

Another auxiliary(?): the `to be` likely won`t exist in the final grammar - if `beingness`has to be indicated, the verb `exist` will be used.
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OHHHHHHHHHH
I get it.

The first (V) is for when you're using a preposition and omitting the verb, right? The second V is for when you have no preposition and need the verb.

I'm doing something kind of similar with Emitare grammar - copulized cases often imply verbs (I am to home = I am going home, I am with a book = I have a book).

Interesting to see some more examples!
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Aert



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good idea! I'll play around with that a bit - I'm working a bit on doing the opposite already - using verbs in place of prepositions etc, if possible, and I'll definitely see what I can do the way you've done it! I'm not sure exactly what I'll take from the idea (I don't want to outright steal your stuff), but something will come of it Very Happy
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