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Woman and man

 
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achemel



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 556
Location: up for debate

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:37 am    Post subject: Woman and man Reply with quote

I wanted to post this before I forgot about it again; I've been thinking about it for two days already and done nothing!!

I have a little challenge: insert punctuation where you think it should go, and translate (if you don't mind) into your conlang -

A woman without her man is nothing

I can only see two ways of clarifying the semantics of this. I'd love to see what everyone comes up with. Smile I'll give it some time before I put up my own translation.
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I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
Italian, Norwegian, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A woman without her man is nothing:
JPN: 男無しの女は何もじゃない。
Otoko nashi no onna wa nanimo ja nai.
man without* GEN woman TOPIC nothing (what ALSO) is.NEG (as TOPIC exists.NEG).
Nashi is the old form of the adjective meaning 'not being, not having' (now nai, the NEG of aru, 'to be (in a place)'). Here it works like a sort of noun/adjective thingeh.
EMI: Kelj olumanerule elu.
thing-NULL-COP man-COM-COP-NEG-ATT woman[STAT].

A woman - without her, man is nothing.
JPN: 女 - 彼女無しに、(男/人類)は何もじゃない。
Onna - kanojo nashi ni, (otoko/jinrui) wa nanimo ja nai.
woman - her without ILL(?), (man/humanity) TOPIC nothing (what ALSO) is.NEG (as TOPIC exists.NEG). (IDK if it would be 'males' or 'the human race'.)
EMI: Ele - elumaneruyu, kelj (olu/oleru).
woman-VOC - woman-COM-COP-NEG-ADV, thing-NULL-COP (man[STAT]/humanity[STAT]).
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Aert



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A woman without her man is nothing
Śesų deђŚoarest gedtov
woman.ind CAR-man-she.POSS be(condition)-nothing

A woman - without her, man* is nothing
Śesų - deђEs, Śoar gedtov
*masculine
woman.ind CAR-she man be(condition)-nothing

A woman - without her, man* is nothing
Śesų - deђEs, Śn gedtov
*people in general
woman.ind CAR-she person.pl be(condition)-nothing
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is CAR?
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eldin raigmore
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Joined: 03 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

achemel wrote:
I can only see two ways of clarifying the semantics of this.
Of course, I'm certain that those two ways are among the following; after all, they're obvious.
Wink

A woman without; her man is nothing.
(Some chick is knocking on the door, and her guy has faded into ghosthood.)

A woman without; her man is "Noth"-ing.
(Some chick is knocking on the door, and her guy is trying to pretend he's actor Chris Noth.)

A woman without; Herman is "Noth"-ing.
(Some chick is knocking on the door; coincidentally Herman is trying to pretend he's actor Chris Noth.)

Uh, woman with ottoman is "Noth"-ing.
(The IKEA delivery person is female, and also has an obsessive crush on Chris Noth.)

Uh, woman with ottoman isn' -- uh -- thing.
(I can't even think of words to describe what the lady trying to rearrange her furniture is up to now.)

A woman without her man; is nothing?
(Is there even such a thing as a woman without her man?)


"A" woman without her man is nothing.
(But "B" woman without her man is a force to contend with.)

A woman without her man is nothing.
(But she can easily do without some other chick's dude.)

'Ey! Woman without her! Man! Is nothing...?
(A Canadian speaker is flabbergasted to point out that some girl has arrived without the expected female companion. S/he fails to complete the "Is nothing sacred?" or whatever stock question s/he started.)
(Or, perhaps, the Canadian speaker is addressing his/her surprise to the woman who is not with "her", rather than the woman who is with "her".)

Ah, woe! Man with outer man is nothing!
(Surely this is self-explanatory.)

Ah, woe! Man with outer man is! Know, thing!
(Maybe not so clear.)

A woman without her man is nothing.
(But two or more women can do OK with no male assistance.)

A woman without her man is nothing.
(But a mare, a nanny-goat, a cow, a tabby cat, or a bitch, can get along OK without human help.)

A woman without her man is nothing?
(Even if she has a car, a house, a gun, a license, a dog, a horse, ...?)

'Ey! Woman with Thoutermann! I'ss no thing!
(A gangstarappa speaking "street" informs the sister accompanying Mr. Thoutermann that the speaker or the addressee does not or need not concern herself/himself with whatever the topic was.)
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Aert



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess it's not the gloss for caritive Wink
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achemel



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 556
Location: up for debate

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, so many replies so soon! (^_^)

Eldin, we can always count on you for an amazingly in-depth answer to any question. I was laughing out loud for most of those! Laughing I dare you to translate all of them into your conlang!! Twisted Evil

Aert: so, your language has a differentiation between "man" as a male and "man" as in all of homo sapiens? Is it possible to make a general statement about the male half of mankind or is that what your third example is? Or am I totally off? (^_^)
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I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
Italian, Norwegian, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

XD eldin!
Quote:
Ah, woe! Man with outer man is! Know, thing!

The most nonsensical thing I've read all day. ^_^

I'm sure that if we translated those literally it would be totally unfunny. If anyone is willing to take on the task of doing an equally punny version of this phrase (or something else) in your conlang, that would be awesome, but you'd have to already have quite a lot of vocab to pull it off. I know I couldn't do it in Emitare, I'd end up inventing words just to be funny.
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Aert



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

achemal: I guess you could do that. There is a word for man (male), woman (female), and person (general), which can all have plurals. However, having the man/woman as an adjective, you could say "the male group of people" or "all female people" or "the male people":

man/male = Śoar/-oar
woman/female = Śes/-es
person (sing./plur.) = Ś/Śn

the male people (in a group): Śẃw (...)
all female people: ẃal Śes
males/men in general: Śẃy
the people: Śno
people in general: Śny
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achemel



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 556
Location: up for debate

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aaah, I see. Very Happy
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I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
Italian, Norwegian, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah
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killerken



Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 134
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eldin: That's hilarious!

A woman without her man is nothing.
Corlỉmo, dol hle, itos lrvỉ n.
(a) woman(S), without man-possfem, nothing to-be present-indicator.

A woman-without her, man is nothing.
Corlỉm-dol elu, hlo itos lrvỉ n.
(a) woman - without her, man(S) nothing to-be pres-ind.
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imdamoos



Joined: 06 Jul 2008
Posts: 64
Location: New York

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nhellr nj c'tev Yhag msayη jepuaey.
Lady-a no-with man of hers is no-what.
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eldin raigmore
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Joined: 03 May 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tolkien_Freak wrote:
XD eldin!
Quote:
Ah, woe! Man with outer man is! Know, thing!

The most nonsensical thing I've read all day. ^_^
I think it's something Dr. Doom would say to Ben Grimm of the Fantastic Four when reporting on seeing Dr. Strange trapped by Galactus.

Or something.
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achemel



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 556
Location: up for debate

PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Hemnlg, Tadvradcel, and Ualaxx the phrase can go like this:

A woman, without her man, is nothing; or,
A woman: without her, man is nothing.

Hemnlg:
Nbycka bejutt stittsa sum pun [female-person she-of male-person-without be(3rd.sing.colloquial) nothing]

Nbyckasu/ Nbyckas, stitt sum pun [female-person-without, male-person be(3rd.sing.colloquial) nothing], or:
Nbycka: bejsu/bejs stitt sum pun [female-person: she-without male-person be(3rd.sing.colloquial) nothing]


Tadvradcel:
Halid ssgly col nysse hysr ss thmal [woman without her man be-PRES no thing]
Halid: ssgly usu nysse hysr ss thmal [woman: without she man be-PRES no thing]

Ualaxx:
Ssiihi-ee-uuuh-uee-hh-ua-oon-aa-tə-nee [woman-NOM-man-3rd.sing.ADJ-NEG-INST-be-AOR-nothing-ACC]
Ssiihi-eela-uuh-luee-hh-lua-oon-aa-tə-nee [woman-NOM(pl.)-man-3rd.pl.-ADJ-NEG-INST-be-AOR-nothing-ACC]

Ssiihi-ec ee-hh-ua-uuuh-ee-oon-aa-tə-nee [woman-VOC 3rd.sing.NOM-NEG-INST-man-3rd.sing.NOM-be-AOR-nothing-ACC]
Ssiihi-ec eela-hh-lua-uuuh-eela-oon-aa-tə-nee [woman-VOC 3rd.pl.-NOM-NEG-INST-man-3rd.pl.NOM-be-AOR-nothing-ACC]

The use of the plural in Ualaxx allows for a generalization; "in general woman(kind), without man(kind), is nothing" or "women: without them, men are nothing."

As a little note, I discovered that "a woman" sounds a lot like the Tadvradcel word "uẅmynh" [əuʊmɪʰn:], which is a place recounted in myth where The First was laid to rest in a jeweled stone hollow then sealed by a dragonking.
Also, "woman" in Hemnlg sounds like "oops, my bad!" - U, mn! (literally, "oops, bad luck").
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I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
Italian, Norwegian, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah
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achemel



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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Location: up for debate

PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, Eldin - did you come up with all of those amazingly awesome variations yourself?? Had you heard the phrase before?
_________________
I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
Italian, Norwegian, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah
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eldin raigmore
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Joined: 03 May 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

achemel wrote:
Oh, Eldin - did you come up with all of those amazingly awesome variations yourself??
Yes.
achemel wrote:
Had you heard the phrase before?
Often. The first time was long ago.
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Eyen



Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Posts: 78
Location: Somwhere on the planet

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A woman without her man is nothing.
H pasan ts ssap r pasan pirn.
a woman is-she without she-possesive man nothing.
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