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new OSV conlang! - D'aeryt

 
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Aert



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:51 pm    Post subject: new OSV conlang! - D'aeryt Reply with quote

I'm not positive about the name yet, but it's likely to stay where it is - it means, more or less, 'of Aert' (it might become D'Aeryt).

Well, I've wanted to try some different things for a while but am reasonably pleased with what I'm going for with Aert.

Here's what I have so far:

Orthography:

a /a/ ae /eI/
e /ɛ/ i,ii /i/
y /I/ ai /aI/
á /ɑː, ɒ, ɔː/ ó /u/ oi /ɔɪ/
ú /ə/ u /ʌ/
o /ɔw/ ou /oʊ/ ao,eo /aʊ, eʊ/

b p g d t f v s z m n l w (all the same as IPA)
c /k/
Ħ,ħ /θ/ Ð,đ /ð/
j /ɣ,ʝ,ç/
ć /tʃ/ ĉ /dʒ/ ś /ʃ/ ź /ʒ/
ń /ŋ/
r /ɹ/ ŕ /r,ɾ/
yh /j/

I shifted the pronouns a bit to match this phonology, as well as the suffixes, prepositions, and articles, etc.

All grammatical aspects go on the pronoun now (if there is no personal pronoun, it is a separate word). There is no conjugation on the verb at all, including pronoun.

There are copious amounts of contractions, as shown by the examples below:

English
Aert
new

I have (habitually) been walking to school for five years
sVé dwenlóoiévr l’Azomin owẃ Teb-zẃ
l'Azómin áwo Tebzo sVi'rnoi'v dwenló

The spirit of the dead is ushered on to the Higher Horizon at the Transition Ceremony
Ýáscoa Várigaorųsth se dwentz laa Ýágároa hoit Fléńganoa Dwentz
a'l'Aiaegaero joi ali Flińgan Dwentz ali Aiaesco dá'li Vaerigaor se dwentz

I myself have been making art for 20 years
sVéthaas aabųrn hedáoi owẃ Teb ðén
áwo Teb ђin sVisi'súrnoi hedae

I gave my cat to your sister's friend Doug.
sVé leђ Adtëlvést laa Śifo ŚųųristŹórst Doug
Vid Adtúl l'ali Śyf dá Źór Śúrd Doug sVi leђ
"my cat to the sister of your friend I gave" (whew!)
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Aert



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure I saw some OSV conlangs here earlier, would someone be able to help me with some of the word order?

I'm trying to translate Frost's "The Road Not Taken" again, and some of the compound lines are messing me up.

Quote:
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;


"and to where, in the undergrowth, it bent down one (path)
as far as I could I looked" ?

Thanks!
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sweet, langs with wacked-out word order are awesome. Looks good!

I would suggest 'and looked down one to where it bent in the undergrowth (which was as far as I could)'. Nothing too weird.
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Aert



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Very Happy

Quote:
I would suggest 'and looked down one to where it bent in the undergrowth (which was as far as I could)'. Nothing too weird


Wouldn't the verb still have to go last (at least in each phrase)? I can't think of any other order that would work here, but it has that annoying nested phrase...
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Tolkien_Freak



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'To where, in the undergrowth, it bent'?
That kind of seems a bit less natural than the other way.
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Aert



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Posts: 354

PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

"and to where, in the undergrowth, it bent down one (path)
as far as I could I looked" ?

How about "And to the undergrowth, where it bent down one (path) as far as I could I looked" ?

or

"And to the undergrowth I looked / where it bent down one path as far as I could" (still not the right order?)

or

"And to the undergrowth I looked / down one path where as far as I could see it bent" Very Happy

That sounds much more natural to me, to put it into two phrases
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Aert



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There we go, I think I've finished "The Road Not Taken" in D'aeryt.

Original Text
Quote:
The Road Not Taken

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, nice equally
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.


Gloss
Quote:
DEF road NEG travel.ADJ

in IND forest yellow PAST two road.PL diverge
and both PAST.1SG.COND NEG can travel, sorry
and one traveler be_equator, long PAST.1SG stand
and to DEF undergrowth PAST.1SG look down one (TWWSB)
where as far as PAST.1SG able see PAST.3SG.N bend

then, nice equally, DEF other PAST.1SG walk
3SG.N.GER have perhaps DEF claim good.COMPR
because PAST.3SG.N be_cond grassy and PAST.3SG.N want GER walk_on
though (TWWSB) DEF GER walk there
equal approximately PAST.3PL.INAN.PFTV wear_down

and both that morning equally lay
in leave.PL that NEG GER walk_on 3PL.N.PFTV make black
oh, for another day DEF first PAST.1SG keep
however, that FUT.1SG return 1SG doubt
because (of) DEF way that path.PL tend to path.PL

with IND sigh this FUT.1SG.GER tell
somewhere time.PL.SUPER and time.PL.SUPER later
in IND wood yellow PAST two road.PL diverge and 1SG
DEF road less PAST travel PAST.1SG walk
and everything (TWWSB) PFTV make-different


D'aeryt
Quote:
ali ćraeyn di snaivád

aile'se Blosá źewhyl se ćaiz ćraeynae hwyn
ii wentħ sV'ai d'old snaif, entsó
ii ćraer Snaif viel, teyń sVi pyae
ii la'li'min-Haioĉ If óovr mayo ćraer liael
rió fae vhó fwi sVi óovr sIf ávthaiz

stelo inj presóúm ali glae sVi vin
Ifoi oryn yhiđyń ali úrsatsinĉśyhi
winć sIf geflendág ii sIf áowi o'imyn
eodám liael ali oi vin rhyśt
pres yhyn Fenúrn imyn

ii wentħ áhch Higlyś presóúm se đor
aile frynae ysc di oi vyn Ifúrn bođaint
ah, ama gcrelae Gliśy ali mbwent sVi páaz
eodám ysc beVi ebáúm Vi syś
wynć ali Gven isc ćraeynae allú ćraeynae

vyn esa'úai jen sVyhoi źier
córi Tevainćaevae ii Tevainćaevae waego
aile'se Blosá źewhyl se ćaiz ćraeynae hwyn ii Vi -
ali ćraeyn ien s'snaivád sVi vin
ii fetáv liael úrn bodigennd


All right, so now I have The Road Not Taken in 5 languages (full text; English, Spanish, Áërt, D'aeryt, Japanese [and Romanji]), and one stanza in another language. Any more takers?


Last edited by Aert on Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I very much like it.
I gotta ask, in your gloss, what does "TWWSB" mean?
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Aert



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Posts: 354

PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

right Embarassed that's an acronym for one word I have in Aert that means "that which was said before" usualy used for verbs, but can also be applied to nouns. Good for keeping from being repetetive Wink
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aert wrote:
right :oops: that's an acronym for one word I have in Aert that means "that which was said before" usualy used for verbs, but can also be applied to nouns. Good for keeping from being repetetive ;)
So it's an anaphor of a sort. A discourse-indicative, if there's such a term. One kind of pronoun, if you're not the sort who insists that anaphora and pronouns are so different that never the twain shall meet.

Or, perhaps, a pro-verb, or a pro-form that could stand for more than one word-class of antecedent.

You're translating it as one particular meaning of English's "that". Or that's what I think, anyway; if I'm wrong I hope you'll tell us.

With such things it's sometimes important that the addressee be able to tell which of more-than-one possible antecedent (earlier co-referent phrase that was more explicit) the speaker actually means. There's lots of ways to do that; not all of them have to be spoken aloud. (That is, speakers and addressees may rely on common sense, on the situation, on non-verbal gestures, or on well-known conventions and customs, to disambiguate.) OTOH person, number, gender, distance-markers (like the difference between "this" and "that"), obviation, long-distance anaphors, logophoric pronouns, fourth-persons, etc. could do it, too.

Does your language have such a means? If so, was it needed in this poem? (Maybe it wasn't.)
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Last edited by eldin raigmore on Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Tolkien_Freak



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh. /pK/
I see what you mean now.

I like that TWWSB idea.
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Aert



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The literal definition of the word is "that which was said/indicated before;" if the word is not replacing a verb/noun, that is what it means (like our English word 'it' can function as a noun replacer when it's understood what it's replacing).

So far, I don't have anything specifically to indicate what the word is replacing, but if it's not clear to the speaker already, theoretically it is by the end of the sentence (ie only one possibility; we have the same problem in English with it/that/multiple uses of one word etc). I might though indicate if it replaces a noun or verb via capitalization (all nouns are capitalized in Aert/D'aeryt)

@eldin raigmore: Sorry, I don't know what a lot of those mean yet Sad but you're right in saying it's one particular meaning of English's 'that.'

@Tolkien_Freak: Thanks Very Happy
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aert wrote:
@eldin raigmore: Sorry, I don't know what a lot of those mean yet Sad but you're right in saying it's one particular meaning of English's 'that.'
Other than "anaphor" I don't know which term I've used that's both important to what I said and likely to be new to you.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/anaphor wrote:
Noun 1. anaphor - a word (such as a pronoun) used to avoid repetition; the referent of an anaphor is determined by its antecedent

"Ana" means "back" or "again"; "phor" means "carry".
You know the old song,
"Carry me back to old Virginie"?
"Anaphor me to old Virgine" wouldn't have sounded as good with that particular music.
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Aert



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, gotcha - that pretty much sums it up Very Happy

The other ones I wasn't sure about were obviate and logophoric; I looked them up now though.

The word is by it's nature logophoric (at least for phrases, sentences less commonly). And it is an obviate, bypassing the noun/verb.
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Aert



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, nevermind, D'aeryt just became VSO :S The OSV order wasn't working for what I was going for... but the rest will stay the same.

I'm having some ideas about another lang, dunno order yet but I have some ideas on grammar Very Happy
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aert wrote:
The other ones I wasn't sure about were obviate and logophoric; I looked them up now though.

The word is by it's nature logophoric (at least for phrases, sentences less commonly). And it is an obviate, bypassing the noun/verb.
Good. I hope it was fun. I should probably apologize for throwing those in; they weren't actually that important to the point I was trying to make. But if you enjoyed looking them up;
Emma Litella wrote:
Never mind.

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