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Hemnälg

 
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achemel



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 556
Location: up for debate

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:54 pm    Post subject: Hemnälg Reply with quote

This is not the first language I've come up with but it's one of the ones I've had the most fun with. Smile I started developing it just a couple weeks ago, and I've got a dictionary of about 400 words. I wanted Hemnälg to be kind of Germanic or Scandinavian-sounding.

Vowels are: a ä å e ë o ö i u y
a/æ ɛ/æ ɔ e/ɛ/ə ɨ o œ i u ʉ/y/ɪ

Consonants are: f v h r rh c k b d t tt s p n m l ll tg sj ch g gt ng j =/v f h r/ɾ k kʲ/ʃ b d c/t d s p n m l ɬ/l: x x x g g* ŋ j/

The consonants /tg gt/ are holdovers from an older dialect, and /tg sj ch/ simplified to all sound like [x]. /k/ before /e ö/ becomes [ʃ], and /t/ after fricatives is just [t]. /h/ allows /v/ to be voiced, and /v/ is voiced also before and after sonorant consonants. The lateral fricative /ll/ comes only at the beginning of a word - inside it the pronunciation is [l:]. The letter /gt/ is tense but not ejective, and sounds a lot like [k]. As a final note, /g/ becomes [n] following some rounded vowels, usually just [y].

Now that the sounds are out of the way, let's move on to pronouns. They often are left out of formal speech because they can be represented within verbs as an infix, but when in use there are nine:
first singular masculine - forj
first singular feminine - lus
first plural - kar
second masculine - ëb
second feminine - dy
third singular masculine - rhit
third singular feminine - bej
third plural masculine - säryk
third plural feminine - abej
There is no word for "it," and instead the third singular forms can be used depending on the gender of the word, unless it is neuter, in which case it more often than not will take masculine modifiers.

The first singular "I" has four cases: nominative, accusative, ablative, genitive; the masculine and feminine each have their own form.

Nominative Accusative Ablative Genitive
Masc. forj form nitge fors
Fem. lus lum bätge lutt

All other pronouns and general nouns take suffixes meaning "to" "from" and "of" as non-nominative case markers.

There are a number of suffixes besides these, and all of them have a neuter, masculine, and feminine form - feminine forms almost always (except for some irregulars) contain a rounded vowel, and masculine forms almost always contain /ä e ë i/. Neuter forms typically contain plain vowels like /a/ or /o/, or a feminine vowel like /u/. This rule applies also to adjectives, which in their neuter form (also called the "dictionary" form) more often than not have no rounded vowels.
Here are the more important suffixes:

Neuter Masculine Feminine
To: -naj -nej -noj
Of: -(n)a -(i)s -(u)tt
In/on/at: -(i)c -(ë)c -(y)c
From: -(a)g -(e)g -(å)g
For/on/to: -(i)c -(ë)c -(y)c
By/with: -(a)l -(e)l -(o)l

Note, the parentheses mark that following a vowel only the final consonant will be suffixed, allowing for ambiguity which could later be clarified by the verb or any adjectives in the sentence.

Possession in the case of non-"I" nouns and pronouns has what I like to call the confusing-and-long form and the easy form. The easy form is to simply attach the "of" suffix to the possessor, followed by what is being possessed. As in, "his story" would be rhitis tvas.
The long form, on the other hand, is used almost singularly by the highest social caste, the priesthood, and only occasionally will royalty use it when speaking to said priests. Here's how it works, and this applies to all nouns excluding first singular pronouns -
The noun being possessed, let's go again with "story" - tvas - will take the final syllable of its possessor - rhit - as a suffix. So, tvasit. The possessor - rhit - will take its own suffix depending on its gender. Masculine nouns (e.g. he - "rhit") take -(ä)m, feminine take -s (following a vowel) or -öl, and neuter nouns take -r (again, the vowels) or -an. In this case, it would be masculine - rhitäm. So the final output is "rhitäm tvasit." This is a simpler example - when plurals get involved they can get much longer. Plural markers on the possessed noun will fall before the final syllable - "his stories" would then become - rhitäm tvasarit.
As another note, when a possessor applies to more than one gender (like, "his sons and daughters") it will take the neuter suffix.

So, let's move on to plurals. This is pretty simple in itself - again it's suffixation, and again there are three genders to account for. But, it's regular enough. Smile
Feminine noun plurals take -ar except when following a vowel, in which case the suffix is -l.
Neuter noun plurals take exactly the same thing.
Masculine noun plurals are the only problem - following fricatives the suffix is -ë, following nasals, /g gt l p/ the suffix is -år (this one's irregular) and everything else takes -or unless it's a vowel, in which case it becomes -l.

Adjectives, on the other hand, are special, and again their formal forms are used almost exclusively by the upper caste. By which I mean the lower people almost never employ the plural forms or the tense affixation.

As I said earlier adjectives usually contain a plain vowel and then will round (or not) into the feminine and masculine forms. Adjectives precede their nouns unless in simple declarative sentences (like, "It is red"), and can take plural and tense suffixation to match the noun following.

Feminine plural adjectives in a present tense regularly take -s, unless that forms a difficult consonant cluster and in which case will take -ås. Plurals in a past tense take -st or -åas.
Masculine adjectives take -n (following a vowel) or -e (following a consonant) for present tense, and -ej or -sj for past.
Neuter adjectives surprisingly take nothing. The use of tense is a sort of informality within the formality, allowing the verb (if it is "to be", anyway) to be dropped completely and yet maintain a formal atmosphere. An example of this could be "it(n) is easy" - larm. "The brick(m) is heavy" - klöp ibrite. "The bricks were heavy" - klöpår ibritej. An irregular might be "good" in the feminine plural tenses - lårs - ending with /s/ it can either absorb the /s/ in the feminine suffixes or take the other form; lårs or lårsås, and lårst or lårsåas.

On to verbs! Verbs fall after the subject, and following them come (if necessary) place, time, location, and objects, though not necessarily in that exact order. There are a number of irregulars, and colloquial forms for some of the most-used verbs (like do, have, be, go...). However, for the most part they take a pronoun infix, plural suffix for added formality, and tense suffixes.
Let's work with the verb "take" - flyg. This by itself can be the verb root, and in order to convey the infinitive must take a suffix, or it can serve as a noun meaning "a thing taken or held." Most verbs hold this double meaning without change but some, like "love" (älard) take a shorter form as a noun - ald.
Anyway, here are the infixes for the nine pronouns and the addition of the neuter "it" -
plain cons. vowel
He/it (m) - ri i r
She/ it (f) - be e b
I (m) - vi i v
I (f) - lu u l
We - ka a k
They (m) - si i s
They (f) - ab a b
You (m) - bë ë b
You (f) - dy y d
It - de e d

Now, in the case of "take" - flyg - it begins with a consonant cluster, and it is one syllable. When this happens the infix splits the cluster, and depending on the articulation and voicing of the initial consonant either the plain form, the vowel-form, or the consonant-form will appear. With "take" we get these:
frilyg, felyg, filyg, flulyg, falyg, filyg, fablyg, fëlyg, fylyg, and felyg.
As you can see, there are some that look (and sound) the same. Ambiguity is good. Smile In the case of non-consonant cluster verbs or those with more than one syllable, the infix will fall directly after the first vowel or following the first syllable. For example, "say" - muvn - would take the infix following the vowel - murivn (I-m say). "Need" - samne - would take it following /m/ - samrine (I-m need). In the case of "call" - nörek - only the consonant-form is used even in formal speech, and so you get forms like nöbrek and nökrek.

Tenses are regular, and follow the sort of following-vowel following-consonant changes as in nouns, except the two forms depend on the roundness of the last vowel in the verb. Tense suffixes can be combined, and there is a suffix for the imperative and interrogative as well.
rounded vowel not rounded vowel
Infinitive: -(i)c -(e)c
Continuous: -stå -äng
Past: -al -el
Probable: -hå -hö
Future: -ja -ji
Imperative: -a -en
Interrogative: -adå -edå

Again, if a verb ends in a vowel the initial vowel of a suffix is dropped. The imperative is used not only for commands but also for giving advice, often in combination with the probable, which implies possibility and uncertainty. The interrogative is used in embedded questions: like, "Do you know if he's coming?" The present tense is implied in the verb root, and needs no affix.

Following these tense suffixes could potentially come plurals, in formal speech, and finally negation in the form of -ch/å (vowel/consonant). There is a word for no - "hej" - but this is typically used in response to yes/no questions and also as a command meaning "don't do that!!!" (kind of like Japanese ダメ!) For an emphasis on negation the word "sjä" can be placed before the verb, or used in combination with the negative affix. The negative affix doesn't apply to adjectives, which take instead "sjä."

Adverbs more often than not are nouns+by/with meaning "by means of/in the manner of..." So, "quickly" is "with speed/in a manner of speed."


I think that's about it! Very Happy I had a lot of fun coming up with this, and I'd love some feedback! I'll be working on the dictionary in the meantime, and I've got a vague idea for a writing system. Sorry if it's at all hard to read because I write so much. Thanks for looking!
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Baldash



Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 86
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Hemnälg Reply with quote

achemel wrote:
Consonants are: f v h r rh c k b d t tt s p n m l ll tg sj ch g gt ng j =/v f h r/ɾ k kʲ/ʃ b d c/t d s p n m l ɬ/l: x x x g g* ŋ j/

Is it really f = /v/ and v = /f/?

achemel wrote:
The noun being possessed, let's go again with "story" - tvas - will take the final syllable of its possessor - rhit - as a suffix. So, tvasit. The possessor - rhit - will take its own suffix depending on its gender. Masculine nouns (e.g. he - "rhit") take -(ä)m, feminine take -s (following a vowel) or -öl, and neuter nouns take -r (again, the vowels) or -an. In this case, it would be masculine - rhitäm. So the final output is "rhitäm tvasit." This is a simpler example - when plurals get involved they can get much longer. Plural markers on the possessed noun will fall before the final syllable - "his stories" would then become - rhitäm tvasarit.

Nice. I like it!

achemel wrote:
As I said earlier adjectives usually contain a plain vowel and then will round (or not) into the feminine and masculine forms. Adjectives precede their nouns unless in simple declarative sentences (like, "It is red"), and can take plural and tense suffixation to match the noun following.

What does it mean that adjectives take tense inflection? Is it when they are used as predicates, as "is red", "was red" or "will be red"? Or also when modifying a noun, as I understand your wording? If so, is it something like this:

red-PRES car = "a red car"
red-PAST car = "a car that was red"
red-FUT car = "a car that will be red"

?

As for the verbs, I like nonconcatenative morphology.

achemel wrote:
rounded vowel not rounded vowel
Continuous: -stå -äng

Does this mean that the verb is perfective by default?

achemel wrote:
The interrogative is used in embedded questions: like, "Do you know if he's coming?"

So it's like a subjunctive mood?
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Baldash



Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 86
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Hemnälg Reply with quote

I wrote:
achemel wrote:
The interrogative is used in embedded questions: like, "Do you know if he's coming?"

So it's like a subjunctive mood?

I have a new theory. Do you mean

"You know he is coming" = "You know that he is coming"
"You know-INT he is coming" = "Do you know that he is coming?"
"You know he is coming-INT" = "You know if he is coming"
"You know-INT he is coming-INT" = "Do you know if he is coming?"

?

I don't know how to translate the last two into my conlang. Maybe I will use this system.
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achemel



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 556
Location: up for debate

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh my, questions! (^_^)

Yes, it's really /f/=[v] and /v/=[f]. I like to confuse myself as well as others. Razz

Quote:
What does it mean that adjectives take tense inflection? Is it when they are used as predicates, as "is red", "was red" or "will be red"? Or also when modifying a noun, as I understand your wording? If so, is it something like this:

red-PRES car = "a red car"
red-PAST car = "a car that was red"
red-FUT car = "a car that will be red"


I think when I first came up with it I mostly meant just as predicates, but in the "proper" sense for the speakers of the language, using them as modifiers would be the most grammatically correct form and the predicates would be colloquial or slang (for the upper caste; the lower people don't generally employ the plural and tense adjective forms). In that sense, both uses - as predicates and as noun modifiers - are possible. The main restriction is that only the present and past plural are possible, and use of other tenses (such as FUT or DUB) would have to take a verb. For example, "a red apple" /blitt clërh/ and "an apple that was red" /blitt soltt clërh/ (singular - note, /soltt/ is the 3rd past colloquial form of "be"), but "red apples" /blitte clërhor/ and "apples that were red" /blittej clërhor/. As a predicate, the word order is switched: "the apples were red" /clërhor blittej/.

Verbs are present by default. Perfective is indicated through suffixation of past /al, el/ in an elongated form: "I stole" (verb is /mych/) - /myl(u)chal/, "I had stolen" /myl(u)chaal/. In my notes I have "if it no longer applies to the present" which I suppose could be... the pluperfect? Whatever I mean it to be, and I suppose I should figure it out, it is the past suffix repeated: /myl(u)chalal/. Looking at it now I'm considering revising it. (^_^)

Aaaand, as for the last one, subjunctive mood... I guess? I'm actually not sure, even looking up what that is. Laughing I hadn't realized so many possibilities were available, but your new theory is quite what I was thinking of. Smile I based the idea on Japanese, wherein the question particle /ka/ is tacked on to declarative sentences which then can be followed by... lots of things. In your examples the Japanese would be a bit different; it wouldn't have just interrogative because they like to make things difficult, but I do believe you've put down quite clearly my intention for the use of Hemnälg's interrogative. Smile Though, in the case of "you know if he's coming" one could simply use "if" instead, depending on whether you're asking a question in a declarative tone of voice or just stating a fact; "if" suggests you're simply stating facts, while the use of the interrogative, whether you add in the matching intonation or not, indicates a desire for confirmation. The difference between "you know that he's coming" and "you know if he's coming" (actually using "if") holds the same level of doubt as in English, where the first is pretty certain and the second is fairly certain and optimistic, rather than "you know if he's not coming." Or something. Rolling Eyes It's way past my bedtime so I'm just rambling now...

Thanks for your comments and questions! Very Happy
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I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
Italian, Norwegian, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah
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Baldash



Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 86
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

achemel wrote:
Verbs are present by default. Perfective is indicated through suffixation of past /al, el/ in an elongated form: "I stole" (verb is /mych/) - /myl(u)chal/, "I had stolen" /myl(u)chaal/. In my notes I have "if it no longer applies to the present" which I suppose could be... the pluperfect? Whatever I mean it to be, and I suppose I should figure it out, it is the past suffix repeated: /myl(u)chalal/. Looking at it now I'm considering revising it. (^_^)

Oh, that sounds like perfect, I meant perfective. Since you have an affix for continuous (basically non-habitual imperfective) which is basically the complement of perfective, then I thought that the unmarked verb was perfective by default, while marking the habitual aspect analytically in some way. As for the "pluperfect", I first thought that it was "past perfect" or "past in past", but then I realized that myl(u)chaal seems to be "past perfect" as well, unless it is meant to be "I have stolen"? So maybe myl(u)chalal and myl(u)chaal are both "past in past", but the former is "past in past" when not having relevance to the present and the latter is "past in past" when having relevance to the present?

achemel wrote:
Though, in the case of "you know if he's coming" one could simply use "if" instead, depending on whether you're asking a question in a declarative tone of voice or just stating a fact; "if" suggests you're simply stating facts, while the use of the interrogative, whether you add in the matching intonation or not, indicates a desire for confirmation. The difference between "you know that he's coming" and "you know if he's coming" (actually using "if") holds the same level of doubt as in English, where the first is pretty certain and the second is fairly certain and optimistic, rather than "you know if he's not coming." Or something. Rolling Eyes It's way past my bedtime so I'm just rambling now...

So how do you distinguish between

"you know if he's coming" = "you have the knowledge about whether he's coming or not"
and
"you know if he's coming" = "if he's coming, then you know (something not explicitly stated)"

?

achemel wrote:
Thanks for your comments and questions! Very Happy

You're welcome Smile
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achemel



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, my bad - misunderstanding of the word "perfect" and "perfective"... why do they have to be so similar?!?! Laughing Yes, verbs are then perfective by default.

The form /-aal/ I fully intended to hold the meaning of "had done..." so I suppose /-alal/ would then be "have done..." with the verb having relevance to the present... I guess. Kind of like Japanese したことがある (shita koto ga aru) - do-PAST thing(abstract)/occasion exists; so, the occasion of having done something exists in the present, though you may not be doing it anymore. I have trouble articulating myself clearly, haha. Rolling Eyes

As for "if" and the interrogative suffix: in the case of "you know if he's coming" as a statement, using the interrogative in a declarative tone is almost like a tag question, but not actually using it - you make the statement and then the interrogative catches the listener's attention and he thinks, "Oh, I guess I'd better confirm that for him/her, just in case" sort of thing. Using "if" and no interrogative is sort of rhetorical (without actually asking a question); you're giving yourself confirmation.

Like so:

Min kärritji
/know-2nd.sing.colloquial if come(he)-FUT/

You know if he will come/is coming (and I’m just saying this sort of to help myself realize the fact and remember it). This also could be more of an emphasis on "you know this for a fact"
OR,

Såfy min kärritji sky hädå jä?
/because know-2nd.sing.colloquial if come(he)-FUT can-1st.pl.-PRES start-INT now/

Since you know if he’s coming (or not, implied) can we start now?

In this sentence it is better to use “if” to mark the subordinate clause, and no confirmation for the clause is necessary.

But,

Min kärritjidå
/know-2nd.sing.colloquial come(he)-FUT-INT/

You know if he’s coming(?) – this could be said in the declarative tone and still prompt a yes/no confirmation from the listener, and it doesn’t have to be a definite question:

Så min kärritjidå, sky hädå jä?
/so/then know-2nd.sing.colloquial come(he)-FUT-INT can-1st.pl.-PRES start-INT now/

Well, you know if he’s coming (though I’m not really sure about it because I didn’t hear it myself, so when you answer this next question can you confirm if he’s coming or not?) [so] can we start now?

In this instance you’d generally use some sort of filler or interjection like “so” or “well,” or perhaps whatever comes after the embedded question/subordinate clause would be like the back end of an “if/then” statement. ([if] you know if he’s coming, [then]…) Also, generally there would be a noticeable pause after the embedded question (thus the comma) to mark it as something to take note of.

I’m having a bit of trouble coming up with some good clarifying phrase for this, so if you have an example in mind that would prompt a differentiation between “if…” (definite knowledge) and “if…” (rather uncertain) please put it down and I’ll try translating it.[/i]
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I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
Italian, Norwegian, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah
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Baldash



Joined: 19 May 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info!

So I guess

"på kärritji så min {the color of his shirt}"

makes sense?

Do you distinguish between "if A then B" when A, whose existence is unknown, causes B if A happens to occur, and "if A then B", if there is a correlation without any causation? I don't know if the distinction is ever needed, it just occurred to me Razz

achemel wrote:
I’m having a bit of trouble coming up with some good clarifying phrase for this, so if you have an example in mind that would prompt a differentiation between “if…” (definite knowledge) and “if…” (rather uncertain) please put it down and I’ll try translating it.

Nothing that springs to my mind right now.
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achemel



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
[quote="Baldash"]
So I guess

"på kärritji så min {the color of his shirt}"

makes sense?


Yes. That is a general if/then statement.

Quote:
Do you distinguish between "if A then B" when A, whose existence is unknown, causes B if A happens to occur, and "if A then B", if there is a correlation without any causation? I don't know if the distinction is ever needed, it just occurred to me Razz


I suppose the general if/then statement, like the one above, is the only way to say "if A then B." I can't think of anything that would require such a distinction between causation and no causation... But, if you wanted to really stress the cause (e.g. "if you know he's coming, then...") you could instead of /så/ use /hast/, which literally means "thus" and carries more emphasis than "then" or "so" or even "therefore."
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I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
Italian, Norwegian, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah
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