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Vreleksá
The Alurhsa Word for Constructed: Creativity in both scripts and languages
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Aeetlrcreejl
Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 839
Location: Over yonder
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 Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks.
Well, it is one of my favourite languages. I do like vowel length distinctions (and macrons are way better than ogoneks), the palatalisations are cool, and there's always fun with declension and conjugation.
And homonym being synonyms with Latvian would make Latvian and French the same.
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Iwocwá ĵọṭãsák.
/iwotSwa_H d`Z`Ot`~asa_Hk/
[iocwa_H d`Z`Ot`_h~a_Hk] |
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Tolkien_Freak
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Kiri wrote: | EDIT: so, the thing I have so far put as "suffix" is called a theme vowel or smth?  |
If I'm interpreting correctly. I can only give an example from Latin to illustrate what I think it is:
amāre - to love (theme vowel ā)
amās - love-2sg
amat - love-3sg (the -t shortens the vowel)
In the subjunctive, you change around the theme vowel, so:
amēs - love-2sg.SUBJ
amet - love-3sg.SUBJ
AFAIK the theme vowel is considered to be part of the stem, but you could easily reanalyze it as a suffix. I kinda like that actually.
EDIT: Crossposted! Woo! (I'm happy because the board's rarely ever active enough for this to happen.)
| Quote: | | And homonym being synonyms with Latvian would make Latvian and French the same. |
Don't forget Chinese. ^_^ |
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Kiri
Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Latvia/Italy
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| Aeetlrcreejl wrote: |
(..) (and macrons are way better than ogoneks), the palatalisations are cool, and there's always fun with declension (..) |
Once again I'm struggling to understand 
And there isn't such a big difference between Latvian and French (in grammar) with the possible exception, that Latvian is harder
Well in Latvian we don't count these as parts of the stem (root), because the root is the part that doesn't change at any costs.
Same example:
dzīv-e = life-NOM (noun)
dzīv-o-t = live-suffix-INF (obviously verb)
dzīv-el-īg-s = live-suffix1-suffix2-INDF (adjective - lively)
the fact is that these suffixes can also contain consonants, but they have to have vowels. |
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Aeetlrcreejl
Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 839
Location: Over yonder
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:08 am Post subject: |
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Latvian marks long vowels with macrons (ā ē ī ō ū), while Lithuanian marks them with ogoneks (ą ę į ų).
By palataliations I meant the palatised consonants - whoops. But those are ģ, ķ, ļ, and ņ. Look
Declension is the changing of nouns according to case.
I have a question about Latvian: ever since Ŗ was taken out from the Latvian alphabet, do people still pronounce the letter r as ŗ in places where it was formerly written as ŗ?
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Iwocwá ĵọṭãsák.
/iwotSwa_H d`Z`Ot`~asa_Hk/
[iocwa_H d`Z`Ot`_h~a_Hk] |
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Tolkien_Freak
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| Kiri wrote: | | Aeetlrcreejl wrote: |
(..) (and macrons are way better than ogoneks), the palatalisations are cool, and there's always fun with declension (..) |
Once again I'm struggling to understand |
Macrons are the difference between a and ā, ogoneks are the difference between a and ą. Palatalization is a little /j/ after a consonant (think Russian ь), and declension is how you modify a noun to show case and number.
| Quote: | Well in Latvian we don't count these as parts of the stem (root), because the root is the part that doesn't change at any costs.
Same example:
dzīv-e = life-NOM (noun)
dzīv-o-t = live-suffix-INF (obviously verb)
dzīv-el-īg-s = live-suffix1-suffix2-INDF (adjective - lively)
the fact is that these suffixes can also contain consonants, but they have to have vowels. |
I see. Looks like 'theme vowel' isn't an apt description, unless the vowel used varies by conjugation (Latin amāre (amās) versus facere (facis)). |
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Kiri
Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Latvia/Italy
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:20 am Post subject: |
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Oh, thanks, I can understand anything with examples given!
Aeet, in Latvia we don't pronounce the ŗ anymore, but the WWII "displaced people" in other countries still do (or so I've heard). Nowadays the existence of Ŗŗ is just a mere grammar detail for Latvian philologists and lingvists.
TF, I think the use is the same, but the form is different
From this point I'll call them midfixes ( ), because they're in the middle of the word and a case suffix comes after them
Ok, I had to be sleeping 3 hours ago. O'm going offline, but feel free to continue asking/discussing/whatever you wish! |
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Tolkien_Freak
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| Kiri wrote: | | Oh, thanks, I can understand anything with examples given! |
I understand fully ^_^
| Quote: | TF, I think the use is the same, but the form is different
From this point I'll call them midfixes ( ), because they're in the middle of the word and a case suffix comes after them |
I like that. I think the proper term is 'infixes', but 'midfixes' sounds cooler.
| Quote: | | Ok, I had to be sleeping 3 hours ago. O'm going offline, but feel free to continue asking/discussing/whatever you wish! |
お休み! |
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achemel
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 556
Location: up for debate
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:36 am Post subject: |
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Midfixes does sound cooler. And I should be sleeping too; allow me to wish you お休み as well. (^_^) That goes for everyone else too; g'nite!
_________________
I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
Italian, Norwegian, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah |
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Hemicomputer
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 610
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| Tolkien_Freak wrote: | | Crossposted! Woo! |
 Explain this term, please?
| Tolkien_Freak wrote: | | Don't forget Chinese. ^_^ |
Chinese takes "homonym" to a whole other level. |
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Tolkien_Freak
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| Hemicomputer wrote: | | Tolkien_Freak wrote: | | Crossposted! Woo! |
Explain this term, please?
When someone posts a reply to a post while you are replying to the same post, so you don't realize someone else has replied until you've already posted.
It's also called being ninja-ed.
| Tolkien_Freak wrote: | | Don't forget Chinese. ^_^ |
Chinese takes "homonym" to a whole other level. |
No kidding. IDK how many characters there are for which the Japanese on'yomi is 'kou'. |
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Kiri
Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Latvia/Italy
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:49 am Post subject: |
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infixes - midfixes... I guess it will depend on the mood
Oh, the Japanese readings are a pain in the place where back loses it's honorable name ^^ |
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achemel
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 556
Location: up for debate
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| Kiri wrote: |
Oh, the Japanese readings are a pain in the place where back loses it's honorable name ^^ |
 That's a fantastic way of putting it.
_________________
I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
Italian, Norwegian, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah |
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