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Vr - a conlang

 
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Kiri



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Latvia/Italy

PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:38 pm    Post subject: Vr - a conlang Reply with quote

This is a conlang that is used by elves in my story (oh, so lame, I know). It's called Vaijerīna ("elvenspeech") (Vr). It is going to have a conscript that I have had many variants of. I think I have finally found the real thing and will post it anytime soon.

Here is the alphabet in (modified) roman capital and small letters:
Aa [a], Āā [a:], Bb [b], Dd [d], Ee [ɘ], Ēē [ɘ:], Ff [ɸ], Gg [g], Hh [h], Ii [i], Īī [i:], Jj [j], Kk [k], Ll [l], Mm [m], Nn [n;N], Oo [ɔ], Pp [p], Rr [ɾ], Ss [s], Tt [t], Uu [u], Ūū [u:], Vv [β], Ww [w](very short), Xx [ks], Zz [z]
For Nn you can see [n] and [N]. The second one is used, when Nn is in front of Kk or Gg. What this means is just that you don't have to pronounce all the sounds perfectly, if neighbouring sounds are in the way.

So. Articles.
Vr has two tipes of singular articles - signif "a" and "the"
a - an
the - nn (or n' if the next word starts with a vowel or an "n")
Plural has no articles.

Pronouns.
Pronouns can be omitted in many cases, because the verb shows, who is the doer. Still pronouns are used and expected in formal language and indefinite sentences.
First singular - Au
Second singular - To
Third singular masculine - Eir
Third singular feminine - Era
Third singular neutral - On
First plural - Aum
Second plural - Tom
Third plural masculine - Eirim
Third plural feminine - Eram
Third plural neutral - Onom

"On" could practically be translated as "it", but you can use it for people, if you want to stress the gender (or any other reason actually)

Next. Nouns.
Random fact: When I write with (modif) roman letters, I usually capitalize all nouns as well as pronouns.
Genders.
Feminine is used as the general gender for all nouns (suffix -a). When talking about people, a masculine suffix may be (and usually is) used (-uj). There is also an independent suffix for plural (-as). Gender is not specified in plural.
Some gender examples:
an Pommewra - a poet, a female poet
an Pommewruj - a male poet
Pommewras - poets (gender: not specified)
an Monga - a mother, (a parent, a female parent)
an Monguj - a father, (a male parent)
Mongas - parents (also fathers or mothers)

Unfortunately pronouns and nouns have more than whan case. The suffixes of cases differ in genders. Also the genders in the cases of pronouns are mixed up. (ignore the last sentence, if needed)
Nominative - Monga, Monguj, Mongas
Genetive - Mongo, Mongjo, Monge
Dative - Mongei, Mongwei, Mongweim
Accusative - Mongu, Mongwi, Mongwim

Next. Verbs.
Verbs have different cases because of person and time.
Let's go with an example:
monet - to give
I give - Au monu
I gave - Au monul
I will give - Au monue
I have given - Au monwe peru
I had given - Au monwe perul
I will have given (?) - Au monwe perue

Adjectives.
I personally love adjectives in Vr, because they all have only one case - with suffix "-an". They come before the word they represent (either it's a noun or a verb)
Examples:
an esperan Antra (a hopeful human being)
esperan montret (to look hopefully)

Word order.
I don't know, how to explain this scientifically (at least in English), so I'm just going to give you all an example.

I am a human being - Au an Antra peru
(Au - I, an Antra - a human being, peret - to be)
Raphael has a green flower - Rafael an vērtan Flowu posēre
(to have - posēret, green - vērtan, a flower - an Flowa)

And in the final - a little text for you to see what the language looks like in real life.
wez wassan epokoi tempan Mūna adjesligeran ba perel. On partiretan perel, pon il kad Fona an Raluj perel, woi Onu regulimperel. no anen Ralas magjan ba perel. Antras o Mannas o Vaijas o Nammas partiretan meinerel, o otros on otros kwazi ba-ki vernel. no anen Atta eino abemutatel. pon jūstan peret volam, ‘Onjarala’ anen Anima perel, woi Onu abemutatel.

(A rough translation)
In old times all the land wasn't united. It was separated, because there was an independent ruler in every city, who ruled over it. But these rulers weren't magical. Humans and Dwarves and Elves and Nammas (a race of my own) were living separately, and knew almost nothing about each other. But it changed. If we want to be honest, it was "Onyaralah", who changed it.

Any questions? Comments?


Last edited by Kiri on Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kiri



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Latvia/Italy

PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:33 pm    Post subject: Greetings Reply with quote

A word about stresses. There isn't a general rule about stresses, but there are some points that might help.
1. Doubled letters are stressed. This includes long vowels and paired vowels (ai, au etc.), but excludes the suffix "-oi" and future tense.
2. In two-syllable nouns/adjectives the first one is stressed.
3. In other noun/adjective/infinitive verb cases either the first or the second-to-last syllable is stressed.
4. In other verb cases the last (in two-syllable words) or the first and the last syllable is stressed (in three-syllable words). Longer verbs are considered stress exceptions.
5. If there happen to be more than one stresspoint in a word, they are equally stressed.

Here are some so-called useful frases in Vaijerīna.

[be] greeted (hello) – taletan! OR taletan perio!
[We] will meet (See you later) – sertame! OR adjessertame! (a stress exception - AdjessErtamE)
Here you are (when giving something) – monu! OR Au monu!
Thank you – ageru! OR Au ageru!
Please – plēru! OR Au plēru!
It's nothing (response to ageru) – ba on ki! OR ba on ki pere!
Forgive me – forlatio! OR Auwi forlatio!
Is everything alright? - exe okan pere? OR exe Tempa okan pere?
Yes, everything is alright – etiam, pere. OR etiam, Tempa okan pere.
No, it's not – nuam, ba pere.
How are you called? - kā Towi gjamare?
What's your name? – kall Tojo Gjamara pere?
My name is ---. – Aujo Gjamara --- pere.
They call me ---. – Auwi --- gjamare.
So what? – so ki?
Darn! Damn! – trox! OR troxan!

The long forms are considered more formal but not necessarely more polite (see "damn")

Days, Months and Seasons - Swas o Meras o Ērpokas
(The list of words is stolen from David. Sorry)
Day-- Swa
Week-- Serpara
Month-- Mera
Year-- Ēra
Decade-- Maiēra
Century-- Faiēra
Time-- Epoka
Season-- Ērpoka

Morning-- Manela
Night-- Farswa
Evening-- Daira

Today-- nesswoi
Tonight-- nenfarswoi
This evening-- nendairoi
This morning-- nemaneloi
Yesterday-- wusswoi
Tomorrow-- asswoi
The day before yesterday-- wus-wusswoi
The day after tomorrow-- ass-asswoi
Next month-- assmeroi
Last month-- wusmeroi
Next year-- assēroi
Last year-- wusēroi

Monday-- 1P [anpiNka]
Tuesday-- 2P [dipiNka]
Wednesday-- 3P [tɘrpiNka]
Thursday-- 4P [kwɘrpiNka]
Friday-- 5P [ɸinpiNka]
Saturday-- 6P [rɘmpiNka
Sunday-- 7P [sɘrpiNka]

January-- 1M [anmɘra]
February-- 2M [dimɘra]
March-- 3M [tɘrmɘra]
April-- 4M [kwɘrmɘra]
May-- 5M [ɸinmɘra]
June-- 6M [rɘmmɘra]
July-- 7M [sɘrpmɘra]
August-- 8M [andmɘra]
September-- 9M [nɘtmɘra]
October-- 10M [maimɘra]
November-- 11M [maianmɘra]
December-- 12M [maidimɘra]

Autumn-- Alonna
Winter-- Hivra
Spring-- Venēra
Summer-- Vallana
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achemel



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 556
Location: up for debate

PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Vr - a conlang Reply with quote

Kiri wrote:
This is a conlang that is used by elves in my story (oh, so lame, I know).


I don't think it's lame. Wink I have languages for elves and nymphs and all manner of creatures too, I totally get that.

Quote:
the - nn (or n' if the next word starts with a vowel)


Does the pronunciation change in this form?

Quote:
pronouns are used and expected in formal language and indefinite sentences.
First singular - Au
Second singular - To
Third singular masculine - Eir
Third singular feminine - Era
Third singular neutral - On
First plural - Aum
Second plural - Tom
Third plural masculine - Eirim
Third plural feminine - Eram
Third plural neutral - Onom


Is there a sort of vowel harmony going on in the plurals? i-i and o-o I would think. ?

Quote:

Verbs have different cases because of person and time.
Let's go with an example:
monet - to give
I give - Au monu
I gave - Au monul
I will give - Au monue
I have given - Au monwe peru
I had given - Au monwe perul
I will have given (?) - Au monwe perue


Do verbs account for the other pronouns? Are they all regular in their infinite form, e.g. ending in (I would assume) /-et/? Does /per(u/ul/ue)/ serve the same functions as the English verb "to be" in that it is an auxiliary as well as a regular verb? Do both verbs in the perfect, pluperfect, and future perfect tenses have to indicate the correct pronoun or only the main (non-auxiliary) verb?

Quote:

Adjectives.
an esperan Antra (a hopeful human being)
esperan montret (to look hopefully)


So they serve as both adjectives and adverbs? Can they be used without the /-an/ suffix? Could you use it, taking /esperan/, in the sense of "hopefully..." ("Hopefully, we'll make it on time)?

Quote:

Word order.
I don't know, how to explain this scientifically (at least in English), so I'm just going to give you all an example.

I am a human being - Au an Antra peru
(Au - I, an Antra - a human being, peret - to be)
Raphael has a green flower - Rafael an vērtan Flowu posēre
(to have - posēret, green - vērtan, a flower - an Flowa)


Subject-object-verb (SOV) order? I'm very fond of that order myself. (^_^)

Quote:
[be] greeted (hello) – taletan! OR taletan perio!


Is this an imperative phrase? How would you form the imperative?

Quote:
Please – plēru! OR Au plēru!


Is /plēru/ a verb?

Quote:
Darn! Damn! – trox! OR troxan!

The long forms are considered more formal but not necessarely more polite (see "damn")


Laughing That's awesome.

I like your language; I'd love to see lots of posts from you in translations so I can ask more questions. (^_^) Haha. Sorry there are so many!
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I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
Italian, Norwegian, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah
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killerken



Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 134
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woot! SOV! Sorry. I don't actually have anything constructive to say.
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Kiri



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Latvia/Italy

PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, thanks for the questions! I didn't get some of them, but that's ok Very Happy

1. Well, that's what these conlangs are for, I guess Very Happy
2. The pronunciation is as written, therefore nn is twice as long as n', but they are both [n]
3. I'm not sure what you mean with "vowel harmony". Basically pronoun plurals were made with a vowel that sounds good + /m/. This happened long before any kind of system was brought in.
4. oh.. I need a dictionary... ( Very Happy ) Yes, all the verbs are regular in their infinitive. /peret/ means "to be", but I don't really understand the term "auxiliary verb", so I can't answer that, sorry. In all of the given cases the pronoun can be omitted.
5. I haven't yet had to use any suffixless forms of adjectives/adverbs, but theoretically it is possible. Your given example would make sense, if /esperan/ is put in the beginning (the end) of the sentence and separated by a comma. /esperan, (Aum) epokoi perame./ or smth like that.
6. Yes, SOV order. The influence of Japanese here.
7. The imperative is made with a verb root + /-io/
8. Yes, it's a verb. Literally it would mean something like "I'm begging"
9. I haven't yet seen all the places in here. Feel free to ask more! Smile
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achemel



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 556
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, by "vowel harmony" I just meant that I noticed the vowels forming the plurals were the same as the vowels within the words: so, /Eir/ has /i/ before that final consonant, and then you made the plura through + /im/. But, for /On/ you made it through + /om/. So I thought, maybe it wasn't possible to have made those plurals with different vowels, like /Eiram/ or /Onem/ or something like that.

Though I don't really trust Wikipedia, here's a link to its article on auxiliary verbs. I'm sure that its explanation is much better and clearer than anything I could tell you. (^_^) I tend to ramble...and cause confusion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auxiliary_verb

Quote:
8. Yes, it's a verb. Literally it would mean something like "I'm begging"


I like that. Very Happy That's a nifty way to say "please."
_________________
I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
Italian, Norwegian, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah
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Kiri



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiri wrote:

5. I haven't yet had to use any suffixless forms of adjectives/adverbs, but theoretically it is possible.


Just had a case, where you can omit the suffix - an

Some female children:
lospan o famman Epas
OR
lospan famm[-] Epas

And there is a whole other thing, when speaking about about numbers, which also end with /-an/ (actually /-ian/). Those suffixes are omitted in some cases, for example, the time and date.
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achemel



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiri wrote:
Kiri wrote:

5. I haven't yet had to use any suffixless forms of adjectives/adverbs, but theoretically it is possible.


Just had a case, where you can omit the suffix - an

Some female children:
lospan o famman Epas
OR
lospan famm[-] Epas

And there is a whole other thing, when speaking about about numbers, which also end with /-an/ (actually /-ian/). Those suffixes are omitted in some cases, for example, the time and date.


Is "some female children" then an exception because "some" is a quantitative word? Would numbers retain the suffix when you're just counting?
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I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
Italian, Norwegian, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah
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Kiri



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it works that way with any two adjectives in a row

a big green tree
grandan vērt Rema
, although, it's just less trouble to put "and" in the middle
an grandan o vērtan Rema

OTOH the first case kind of indicates that there are other green trees and this particular green tree is big. (also there may be trees of other colours), while the second case indicates that this particular tree is big and green (without any notes about other trees). But that isn't really based on anything but my personal feelings at the moment Very Happy

The quantitative words (including numbers) is something I have yet to figure, but this is how it looks like at the moment

an 1 Swa [an anian swa] - a one day
n'1 Swa [nanian swa] - the one day
n'1Swa [nanswa] - the first day (of the month, for example)
an 1Swa [an answa] - a first day (I just thought of this and have no idea about the use, but theoretically this kind of form is also possible

You have to pardon me, but I'm still roaming around with these.
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achemel



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiri wrote:
Well it works that way with any two adjectives in a row

a big green tree
grandan vērt Rema
, although, it's just less trouble to put "and" in the middle
an grandan o vērtan Rema

OTOH the first case kind of indicates that there are other green trees and this particular green tree is big. (also there may be trees of other colours), while the second case indicates that this particular tree is big and green (without any notes about other trees). But that isn't really based on anything but my personal feelings at the moment Very Happy


Ah, I see! Personal feelings are a good thing to go on, you know. Very Happy

Kiri wrote:
The quantitative words (including numbers) is something I have yet to figure, but this is how it looks like at the moment

an 1 Swa [an anian swa] - a one day
n'1 Swa [nanian swa] - the one day
n'1Swa [nanswa] - the first day (of the month, for example)
an 1Swa [an answa] - a first day (I just thought of this and have no idea about the use, but theoretically this kind of form is also possible


Would "a first day" perhaps be used in a similar sense of "the first day," except without the constraints of being a day of the week or month or year? I mean, though the translation may use "the" for both of those, the distinction could be made through use of the two articles in the language itself - you could have "the first day (of September means autumn is coming soon)" versus "a/the first day (that I tried skiing I made a fool of m'self on the bunny slope)" perhaps? That's what comes to mind for me, anyway.
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I would like to learn:
Italian, Norwegian, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
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Kiri



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, that's a good idea, thanks, I'll definitely use it as an option!
I had another idea of the use of that form.
"In my life, I have had many days that could be called "the first" of something. [insert a list here]. But then there was a special first day - a first day of being in love"
Or smth like that. Oh, I will see from whatever I have to translate Smile

I'm not sure, if there's anything (important) left unsaid about the grammar of Vr. Is there? Very Happy
Should I post some more word-translations or is there no need for it, and I should just move to the Translations forum whatsoever?
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achemel



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiri wrote:
"In my life, I have had many days that could be called "the first" of something. [insert a list here]. But then there was a special first day - a first day of being in love"
Or smth like that.


Oh, that's good. Very Happy That would be using both of them then, huh?

If you think you've posted just about everything you have (or if you just don't want to post anything more yet) I'd suggest going to Translations and working out grammatical points you may have missed or which need work from there. Even if you think what you have is perhaps a bit incomplete, by attempting translation and posting it you can get more feedback. Wink I'd like to see what you've got, at any rate.
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I would like to learn:
Italian, Norwegian, Gaelic
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Kiri



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some changes, that are based on pronunciational needs.

A new letter is added - y [i]

And some sound changes:
1. If two n's are next to each other, they're pronounced [mn].
Example: definite article nn, n'Nemira, Linna
2. If two l's are next to each other, the first one is pronounced palatalized, and the second one is pronounced [j].
Examples: Ulla, Mallanda
3. If an i is between a plosive and a vowel, it's prnounced [j].
Examples: Giamara, giulēma.

Y is always pronounced [i], therefore it is needed in such words as dyan - /dian/ (instead of dian /djan/

This changes some spellings, for example, adiessertame (instead of adjessertame) and forlatyo (instead of forlatio).

Does this make sense?
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Hemicomputer



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Makes perfect sense to me. I like the /lj/, it sounds nice.
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achemel



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I agree too. On both of Hemicomputer's comments.
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