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Kiri
Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Latvia/Italy
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 Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 6:39 pm Post subject: Gannan |
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This is the language I mentioned in the "Hangul-like conscript" thread. The Gannan.
First off, here're the sounds. Yeah, I know, they're pretty basic, but still.
(I'm trying to learn X-SAMPA, so I can use it instead of IPA. So, there may be mistakes)
Vowels:
"a" a
"e" e
"o" o
"y" 1 (I see it as a midway between i and u )
Consonants:
"b" b or final p, "d" d or final t, "g" g or final k (syllables)
"s" s, "š" S, "h" h
"č" tS, "dž" dZ (ideas, how I could transcribe this without a digraph?)
"m" m, "n" n
"l" l, "j" j
and a silent "consonant", that I don't plan to show in romanisation 
There is a distinguishment between long and short vowels, therefore
"a"-->"ā", "e"-->"ē", "o"-->"ō", "y"-->"ӯ"
Syllable structure is basically CVC. Word order probably OVS.
The transcription is not supposed to be realistic, but more like understandable for Latvian people
And yes, that is all I have at this point. |
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Tolkien_Freak
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 9:17 pm Post subject: Re: Gannan |
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Looks good. So you don't distinguish between voiced and unvoiced stops?
Your vowel system is pretty weird. No /i u/? I can see /1/ alternating with /i:/ or /u:/, but not a total lack of both in favour or /e o/. (Maybe you could have /e i: o u:/ for long/short vowel alternations or something.)
For /dZ/, you're stuck with a digraph unless you want an extra diacritic or you want to write it <j> (which is already /j/).
| Quote: | | and a silent "consonant", that I don't plan to show in romanisation |
How's that supposed to work? You mean /?/ ?
Gonna do anything interesting with grammar? ^_^ |
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Kiri
Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Latvia/Italy
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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I mean, it's similiar to the hangul thing that isn't pronounced when in the start of a syllable.
About the grammar - I'm not sure yet. I don't really know, but I guess I want to try something new. Any suggestions? |
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Tolkien_Freak
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Kiri wrote: | | I mean, it's similiar to the hangul thing that isn't pronounced when in the start of a syllable. |
Ah. The little circle thing? (I'm not too familiar with Hangeul.)
| Quote: | | About the grammar - I'm not sure yet. I don't really know, but I guess I want to try something new. Any suggestions? |
IIRC the LCK has a good list of ways to make your conlang less Indo-European. |
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Kiri
Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Latvia/Italy
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| Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:50 am Post subject: Re: Gannan |
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| Tolkien_Freak wrote: | | Your vowel system is pretty weird. No /i u/? I can see /1/ alternating with /i:/ or /u:/, but not a total lack of both in favour or /e o/. (Maybe you could have /e i: o u:/ for long/short vowel alternations or something.) |
I'm not sure I understand the suggestion part
| Tolkien_Freak wrote: | | Ah. The little circle thing? (I'm not too familiar with Hangeul.) |
Yes, exactly! 
| Tolkien_Freak wrote: |
IIRC the LCK has a good list of ways to make your conlang less Indo-European. |
I'm sorry, what is LCK? 
Oh, and yeah, I'm thinking agglutinative, though I'm not entirely sure I know how it works. It's the Japanese-type compund words and stuff? |
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Tolkien_Freak
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.
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| Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Gannan |
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| Kiri wrote: | | I'm not sure I understand the suggestion part |
I'm not sure how to explain it more ^_^
| Quote: | | I'm sorry, what is LCK? |
The Language Construction Kit.
| Quote: | | Oh, and yeah, I'm thinking agglutinative, though I'm not entirely sure I know how it works. It's the Japanese-type compund words and stuff? |
Yeah, where instead of something like Latin where you have one morpheme that's -1.sg.PERF, you have one that means -1, one that means -sg (probably a null morpheme, i.e. the meaning is carried by the lack of anything else meaning -pl or something), and one that means -PERF. |
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eldin raigmore
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Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1621
Location: SouthEast Michigan
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| Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Gannan |
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| Kiri wrote: | | I mean, it's similiar to the hangul thing that isn't pronounced when in the start of a syllable. |
| Tolkien_Freak wrote: | | Ah. The little circle thing? (I'm not too familiar with Hangeul.) |
| Kiri wrote: | | Yes, exactly! |
Related conceptually to Virama (which suppresses the inherent vowel from an abugida character?
Or to the Limbu vowel-carrier character which is a character in an abugida that has no onset-consonant?
I think you actually mean ieung.
| Wiktionary wrote: | | ... The first of two letters now written ㅇ, a simple circle, was a 'zero' symbol invented by King Sejong to hold the place of a consonant in a vowel-initial syllable. ... the other letter now written ㅇ, ㆁ, ... had the velar nasal value [ŋ] ... iconically represent[s] its dual sound values in initial position, [ŋ] in some ... dialects, silent in others, and silent in Chinese words borrowed into Korean. When hangul was revived in the 20th century, and it was no longer a concern to accurately transcribe Classical Chinese phonology, there was no longer any possibility of confusing the two ㅇ letters, and they merged. |
So when it's non-initial it's pronounce [N]; when it's initial it may be pronounced [N] or may be not pronounced, depending on the speaker's dialect and on the etymology of the word. When it's not pronounced it's like a "vowel-carrier", in that it indicates that in that particular syllable there is no onset.
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Kiri
Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Latvia/Italy
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, I've come back to this and reworked it to an extent.
Sounds:
Consonants
Nasal: <m n> /m n/
Plosive: <p b t d k g> /p b t d k g>
Fricative: <s z š ž h> /s z S Z h/
Affricate: <č dž> /tS dZ/
Other: <r l j> /r l j/
Vowels
<a ā e ī o ū y> /A a: e i: o u: 1/
Syllable
(C)V(L), where
L – unvoiced stop or other consonant
Comments? |
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eldin raigmore
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Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1621
Location: SouthEast Michigan
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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Looks mostly reasonable.
| Kiri wrote: | Syllable
(C)V(L), where
L – unvoiced stop or other consonant |
What do you mean "unvoiced stop or other consonant"?
Do you mean /l r j/ or /p t k/ ?
If so, I think /l r j m n/ would be more naturalistic and more realistic (See http://wals.info/chapter/12 and Feature 12A about "moderately complex syllable structure", perhaps better called "almost simple syllable structure"). But there's no reason not to go ahead with what you've got.
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Kiri
Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Latvia/Italy
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| I meant /p t k l r j m n s š č/, because I forgot the affricates and fricatives. The idea being that it once allowed all types of consonants at the coda, but at some point the voiced once got unvoiced... If consonants like /l r j m n/ had an unvoiced pair, this would of course count those too...... |
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eldin raigmore
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Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1621
Location: SouthEast Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Kiri wrote: | | I meant /p t k l r j m n s š č/, because I forgot the affricates and fricatives. The idea being that it once allowed all types of consonants at the coda, but at some point the voiced once got unvoiced... If consonants like /l r j m n/ had an unvoiced pair, this would of course count those too...... |
So what you mean is "a sonorant* or an unvoiced consonant"?
*(Sonorants are glides, liquids, and nasals.)
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"We're the healthiest horse in the glue factory" - Erskine Bowles, Co-Chairman of the deficit reduction commission |
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Kiri
Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Latvia/Italy
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, that Thanks. |
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