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About Accents and Diacritics

 
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Cordelier



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 60
Location: New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:50 pm    Post subject: About Accents and Diacritics Reply with quote

I was just wondering, how do you write letters (vowels and/or consonants) with diacritics and/or accents on the computer (especially with a laptop)?
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Aeetlrcreejl



Joined: 08 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made a keyboard layout that lets me type all kinds of diacritics. Comment est-ce que vous le faites? (trying out my bad French there; I might do that a lot more often)
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Cordelier



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
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Location: New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, je vois (Oh, I see)... Alors, il est mieux que je fasse de même (So, it is best that I do the same).
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Aeetlrcreejl



Joined: 08 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cependant, si vous n'utiliseriez que des accents aigus, graves, trémas, circonflexes, et tildes, le "keyboard layout" (je ne sais pas comment c'est dit en français) US-International est mieux.
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Kiri



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Latvia/Italy

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of which - how DO you make a keyboard layout like that? Very Happy
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Aeetlrcreejl



Joined: 08 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator. Best program ever.
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Hemicomputer



Joined: 04 Feb 2008
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Location: Calgary, Alberta

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is a "trémas" accent? I understood the rest of your post, but that confused me.
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eldin raigmore
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Joined: 03 May 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hemicomputer wrote:
What is a "trémas" accent? I understood the rest of your post, but that confused me.

Clusty wrote:
French writing system
The diacritic marks are called: accent aigu (like é), accent grave (like è), accent circonflexe (like ê), trémas (like ë), and cédille (like ç).
http://www.lerc.educ.ubc.ca/LERC/courses/489/worldlang/french/frenchwriting.htm

http://www.lerc.educ.ubc.ca/LERC/courses/489/worldlang/french/frenchwriting.htm wrote:
The trémas are used to separate the sounds of two vowels. For instance, ai is pronounced like e in get. But if you write it aï, it is pronounced a+i, like the y in my.

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Hemicomputer



Joined: 04 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, o elden!
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Cordelier



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
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Location: New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Aeetlrcreejl:
Quote:
"keyboard layout"

You can use either "Apparence du clavier" or "Programmation du clavier," depending on which context you want to use; and since it is about programability (I wonder if that is a word) of a computer, then I believe the latter is best to use.
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Aeetlrcreejl



Joined: 08 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Merci beaucoup!

J'ai une moitié du examen du français après-demain. Souhaitez-moi de bonne chance, s'il vous plaît!
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Cordelier



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
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Location: New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonne chance, alors, companion de "conlang"! LOL! J'espère que ton examen va bien se dérouler. Very Happy
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Kiri



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
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Location: Latvia/Italy

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again about the layout business. I guess my computer-knowledge is just not good enough, but what do you do when your layout is made? How do you establish it?
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Zearen Wover



Joined: 09 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Concerning the following: I don't think the following is what you meant, however I'll leave it in because it's not necessarily bad information. Someone may even find it useful.

If you use international US, you hold down AltGr (Normally the right Alt key, but you may need to set it) and press the corresponding key. It's very similar to using a shift key.
E.g.
AltGr+e = é
AltGr+d = ð
AltGr+q = ä
One can use the shift key in conjunction with AltGr:
AltGr+Shift+e = É
AltGr+Shift+d = Ð
AltGr+Shift+q = Ä
Note sometimes this is written more simply: AltGr+E. When you are beginning, it may be best to print out a character map and put it beside your computer. There will be four characters on each key. The bottom left is no modifiers. The top left is Shift. The bottom right is AltGr. The top right is AltGr+Shift. A final note, watch out for dead keys. These keys will not type a character themselves, but modify a character following them. E.g. AltGr+6 is the circumflex dead key, so typing AltGr+6 and then e yields ê.

As far as how to apply keyboard settings on Windoze, I have no idea. Personally, I use Ubuntu Linux which has this cool little thing called a compose key (other distros have this as well). For anyone who uses Ubuntu, or anyone interested, I'll explain how to set it up. First go to System>Preferences>Keyboard and click the tab "Layout", then the button "Layout Options" (I use my computer in French, so take my English translations with a grain of salt, (The button is "Options de l'agencement..." in French btw)). Then click "Compose Key Position" and select where you want to put it. I put mine on the Win Key. When you're done, you can close the windows.

Using the compose key is very easy. Normally, its a sequence of only two characters. For example é is Compose, apostrophe, e. This is also sometimes written <Multi> <apostrophe> <e>. A large advantage of the compose key is the larger variety characters it can produce once the basic accent characters are known. For example, it is just as easy to type é as it is to type ś. Of course these characters can be accessed with just a US international layout, but I find compose a little more intuitive. It also has a few characters that can't be accessed with this keyboard layout. However many of these are anecdotal, like the interrobang(‽) for example. Furthermore, if one enables XIM to gain access to an even wider range of accents and characters. To enable XIM, enter the following at the terminal:
Code:
$ echo export GTK_IM_MODULE="xim" >> ~/.XSession

All this does is add a line to .XSession. If you don't want it simply tacked on the end you can add it yourself.

The real cool thing about compose with XIM is that you can add your own sequences. For example, I have ζ set to <Multi_key> <g> <z>, and I have the rest of the greek alphbet set in a similair manner. To set this up, you need to establish your own ~/.XCompose file. It's best to copy the default one:
Code:
$ cp /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose ~/.XCompose

Next simply open ~/.XCompose and add sequences at your pleasure. The syntax is:
Code:
<X> <KeySyms> : "x" Uxxxx # UNICODE NAME

For example, my sequence for ∄ is:
Code:
<Multi_key> <m> <exclam> <E>          : "∄" U2204       # THERE DOES NOT EXIST

You can use xev to find the keysyms if you need to.

AllChars does something similar to this for Windoze.

>_> I'll stop rambling now (Yes, I'm a geek).
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Last edited by Zearen Wover on Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Baldash



Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 86
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For Mac OS X there is Ukelele, which is very easy to use.
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Kiri



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's all nice but doesn't answer to my question Very Happy
When I have made the layout with a layout creator tool, how do I start using it? Very Happy What do I do with the layout file? Very Happy
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never done it before so I could be horribly wrong, but check and see if it's on the list of keyboard layouts under control panel.
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Aeetlrcreejl



Joined: 08 Jun 2007
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Location: Over yonder

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're using Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator, go to the Project menu and it should have some options. Go to "Build DLL and Setup package," and it should build the files necessary to install your layout unless you have problems with your layout, which it will highlight. If it lists Unicode problems, you can ignore those.

Once it builds the files, choose the i386 file (that's the one that works for me; it may be a different file for you). It should install.
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Kiri



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much Smile I now have my own layout Smile
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kyonides



Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 301

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, thanks Zearen Wover, now my Kubuntu distro includes a custom keyboard layout... except in GTK based applications like firefox... Well, that shouldn't be a big issue since it works in Qt and KDE based apps like Konqueror and Opera.

Actually, I even posted a Spanish version of the steps in another forum just to spread the word.
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