Vreleksá

Aert · Joined: 03 Jul 2008 Posts: 354

Helloo,

I'm working on the verb system in my language but have hit a stumbling block... I'm trying to make a hierarchy of a couple (dozen?) basic, general verbs with a bunch of more specific verbs in each of the sections. The more specific the verb is, the longer it is, as sounds are added to the original, basic verb each step you go.

The problem is that I can't seem to get them into the wide groupings. Some have worked really well, like creating/making things, or movement. Others, like eating, sleeping, working; to have, play, find, plan, and so on, are harder to put into general groups.

I'm planning on having a suffix that identifies the verb as a noun instead of the verb, and another that identifies it as someone who does this (as in the English set {to dance, a dance, a dancer}).

The good news is I do have the conjugation system pretty much done Very Happy

I just need something to wrap them around Wink

Does anyone have some suggestions, links, or thoughts on this? That would be great!

Thanks in advance!

Hemicomputer · Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 610 Location: Calgary, Alberta

Maybe an "inactivity" group: to sit, to lie, to stand, to sleep, etc. An "intangiable action" group might have things like to be, to know, to have.
For "find" and "plan", perhaps a "thinking" group. You might have to have an "other" group, or put some verbs into groups where they don't totally belong, but this would just help the language sound more natural.

Hope this helps! Smile

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eldin raigmore · Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 5:05 pm Post subject:

There's lots of stuff about this, and the problem is to gather it all, to make it fit together, and to throw out what's too much for your current purpose.

Here's SIL's list of "Kinds of Verbs": (Note it doesn't claim to be exhaustive):

Aert · Joined: 03 Jul 2008 Posts: 354

WOW

That will definitely help! Thank you both! Idea

eldin raigmore · Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:27 pm Post subject:

BTW this thread contains a link to "Vendler's aktionsarts":

Aert · Joined: 03 Jul 2008 Posts: 354

Nice! Thanks! I have a spot for a little over a hundred verbs now (though I still need to translate them Wink

) This will help a lot with the ones I've been stuck on Very Happy

eldin raigmore · Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:25 pm Post subject:

BTW there's a worthwhile thread right now on CONLANG-L.
Lars Finsen sent me the following:

Aert · Joined: 03 Jul 2008 Posts: 354

Thanks!! There still have been some holes in where the heck to put some of these, this should help fill them Very Happy

It's quite complete!

Another question Wink

:

Does a conlang need cases? I've checked out German, and quite frankly, think it's overcomplicated. I'm trying to keep my conlang simple (at least on the surface) with no cases, genders (except for animals/people), and conjugations don't change with the pronoun, just tense, mood, etc.

Can't cases be inferred? I don't see any obvious changes to a noun in different case situations in English.

Thanks!!

langover94 · Joined: 21 Aug 2007 Posts: 509 Location: USA

You don't have to have cases although they do certainly make a conlang more interesting.

Never build a conlang completely off of English. In fact, I'm surprised English didn't acquire cases, because most of its vocabulary came from both German and Latin, which have rich case systems.
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Aert · Joined: 03 Jul 2008 Posts: 354

I agree that you shouldn't make a conlang off a single language. I'm taking ideas from all over the place, but I'm still trying to keep the foundation simple. Right now, as far as I can see cases just aren't necessary.

Do you mean they make a language more interesting because they give the written and spoken words more variety?

As for English not having cases, I wonder if it did in the middle ages, when it was highly influenced by the other Germanic languages. Then later, lost them after the French took over (and then left) and was more influenced by the local Celtic languages, as well as the trading partners in Europe and later trade routes. Pure speculation, though Wink

eldin raigmore · Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:43 pm Post subject:

Lots of languages in real life don't have cases.
Verb-initial languages tend not to need cases so much.
Verb-medial languages tend to have rather fewish cases.
It's verb-final langauges that tend to have a lot of them.

Polypersonal-agreement languages tend not to need lots of cases.
Strong-case-system languages tend not to have strong agreement-systems.

Isolating or analytic languages seem not to have lots of cases.
Languages that do a lot of object-incorporating don't need lots of cases.
"Polysynthetic" languages don't need a lot of cases.
Cases are mostly found in agglutinating languages and in "fusional" languages.

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The information in a language's case-system have to be conveyable by some means in any other language; but not necessarily by cases. Ordinarily, anything that could be conveyed by nominal case could equally well have been conveyed by verbal voice; and vice-versa.

Lots of languages have many adpositions, or even adverbs or auxiliaries, to convey what other languages would convey by case.

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Try, if you want, to make a language that can say anything that can be said in a cased (some say "casual") language, but has to say it without cases. That will give you some ideas about what cases do.
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eldin raigmore · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject:

Everyone here should look at
the Universal Language Dictionary
to see its word-classification system.
Roget's Thesaurus also has one; and so does Zompist's thematic dictionary of Verdurian and Almean languages.

@Aert, look also at WeepingElf's system:

eldin raigmore · Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Help with verbs

Aert · Joined: 03 Jul 2008 Posts: 354

Good questions to ponder, thanks for bringing them up!

Hemicomputer · Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 610 Location: Calgary, Alberta