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eldin raigmore
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 Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:33 pm Post subject: Why doesn't this noun-phrase denote the same thing this .... |
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Why doesn't this noun-phrase denote the same thing this noun-phrase denotes?
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Last edited by eldin raigmore on Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Kiri
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| What a weird, mindscrewy sentence... |
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eldin raigmore
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Kiri wrote: | | What a weird, mindscrewy sentence... |
That's why it's a "translation challenge", rather than merely something to translate.
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Kiri
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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more like understanging challenge  |
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eldin raigmore
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| Kiri wrote: | | more like understanging challenge |
Well, the challenge comes IMO both from the use vs mention opposition and from self-reference.
Both noun-phrases consist of the words "this" and "noun" and "phrase" in that order. In other words, they are identical except for when they are said.
Each one of the noun-phrases refers to itself, not to the other noun-phrase.
The question's answer has to do with deixis. For another example of deixis, when I say the words "my place", that refers to some place in SouthEast Michigan; whereas when you say exactly the same words -- to wit "my place" -- that refers, apparently, to some place in The World of Obsession.
The demonstrative "this" refers to whichever of two or more candidates in a pool of possible referents happens to be closest (in time or location or some other salient pragmatic property) to the use of the word "this". As a result, if there are two phrases both referring to "this phrase", each must refer to itself; neither can refer to the other.
You might also ask,
"Why won't the following noun-phrase refer to the same thing the previous noun-phrase referred to?"
Or,
"Why doesn't that noun-phrase denote the same thing that noun-phrase denotes?", although, in the latter case, your meaning couldn't be clear unless you somehow pointed to the second NP when reading the first one, and pointed to the first NP when reading the second one.
Does that help? If you're still confused (assuming you were), are you at least at a higher order of confusion now?
Do you know a language into which the original question cannot be translated?
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eldin raigmore
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone else have anything to say?
@Kiri, do you have any more to say?
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eldin raigmore
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| Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Blatant bump.
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