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Aalmoken
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LingoDingo
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:10 am    Post subject: Aalmoken Reply with quote

Well, Ive finally gotten around to typing up a good introduction to the wonderful world of Aalmok, the Language of the Mountain and Sun.

Lets begin with the obligatory sound inventory.

The following is a list of the romanization system and IPA equivalents I have in place for Aalik, the languages orthography (which can be found here):

Consonants:

b c č d ď f g h j ǰ k l ľ m n ň p q q̌ r ř s t ť v w x x̌ y z ˀ
b ʧ ʂ d ɸ g h ʤ ʐ k l r m n ŋ p ɣ ɤ ɾ ɹ s ʃ t θ β w x j z ʒ ʔ

Vowels:

a e i o u
a ə ɛ i ɪ ɔ u ʊ

As Aalik is an abugida, only the consonants are given names. They are as follows:

kugu todo paba ceje ˀi r ř y wu lo ma ne ňi xq sz fv uu ťoďo x̌aq̌a čeǰe hi ľ

Each of the vowels are divided into two groups: the base vowels and the loose vowels. Each base vowel has a subliminal connotation that sometimes manifests in the meaning of a word. I and u represent positivity and negativity respectively or femininity and masculinity respectively. E and o represent agreement and negation respectively. And a represents neutrality or peacefulness.

The loose vowels often manifest in the agglutination process of word making when one of the base vowels in a root word becomes part of an unstressed syllable in the new word. These transformations will happen in a set pattern: i > ; e,a,o > ; u > .

Now lets begin looking at the basic word formation.

All native Aalmok nouns end in a consonant other than l. The purpose of this is merely to distinguish it from the adjectives. No words ever possess long consonants. Vowels stacked above each other are di-tripthongized and if placed above separate no sound bases are pronounced separately but not in the fashion that they are with a glottal stop in between. No worries though, this situation doesnt actually occur in native words. The numbers 1-9, the prepositions, the conjunction and the words yes, no, I, you and it all end in a vowel and are generally one syllable in length as you will see shortly. Words have a basic stress layout across all of the word stems (it is important to note that it is only word stems that have this rule and an ending of any kind does not change the place of articulation from the penultimate root syllable). Under normal circumstances the penultimate syllable has primary stress and a root with four or more syllables will have lesser stresses on each second syllable before the penultimate. This is not a rule however and if for some reason someone wishes to emphasize a certain syllable they would not be breaking any rules. An exception to this pattern manifests with the use of long vowels: a long vowel will take primary stress and if more than one exists in the root then the initial holds primary stress.

How about some basic vocabulary?

Pronouns:

to - I
we - you
bun - he
pin - she
la - it
to - we(exclusive)
te - we(inclusive)
we - you all
la - they

Numbers:

mo - zero
n - one
dwe - two
za - three
koi - four
po - five
vi - six
sei - seven
hau - eight
mu - nine
neb - ten
neb - eleven
nebwe - twelve
dweenb - twenty
zaanb - thirty
zaanb - thirty one
demo - (one) hundred
dweedemo - two hundred
zaademo - three hundred
zaademo-dweenb - three hundred tweny one
zamo - (one) thousand
komo - ten thousand

Current prepositions:

a - to/towards/for
byu - away| from/of/by
ku - in/into
kyo - on/onto
ma - out/out of
wi - above/up
yu - beneath/down
fa - in front of/to the front of
go - behind
ni - with
nimo - without
tuu - near| to/close by/close to
gaa - far| from/far away
ci - at/by/about
we - to the left of
yo - to the right of
du - through/in between
lu - during
ľe - at (time)
na - near (time)/soon
li - far| from (time)
u - before
la - after
kwi - around/about/surrounding
mi - like/as
kosi - north/northwards
kozu - south/southwards
kowe - west/westwards
koyo - east/eastwards
kwa - seperate/apart
yau - to the side of/beside
jo - across/from| between/on the other side of
gľoi - over/on top of
kreu - underneath/on the underside of
kidu - along/along the side of
lila - long after
liu - long before
nala - soon after/just after
nau - just before
spu - for each/from each


Current conjunctions:

ke - and
do - but
ca - or
ťa - that
wa (decl.) - who
a(decl.) - that(non-sentient objects)
apu - because
dos - as such/so/therefore
ki - when
ťet - then
ko - in order to


The basic Aalmoken sentence is SVO in a normal sentence or exclamation and OVS in a question. This is not a rule, however, and if a certain section of the sentence needs to be emphasized it can be moved to the end of the sentenced. This is possible because of the highly structured grammatical inflection of words.

There are six grammatical cases in Aalmoken:

zn deenisal - nominative case (used exclusively for nouns/pronouns/genitive nouns that are not acted upon)

zn deenusal - accusative case (used exclusively for nouns/pronouns/genitive nouns directly acted upon)

zn ďeenisal - dative case (used exclusively for nouns/pronouns/genitive nouns indirectly acted upon)

zn deictisal - positional case (used exclusively for nouns/pronouns/genitive nouns whose position is being expressed by a preceding preposition)

zn tauctisal - directional case (used exclusively for nouns/pronouns/genitive nouns whose direction is being expressed by a preceding preposition)

zn niiksisal - genitive case (used exclusively for nouns/pronouns who are in possession of the preceding noun)

The genitive case is unique in that it can exist within the other cases. This case essentially takes the place of adjectives. Each case has its own declension of the nouns therein and a genitive case noun has its own, similar declensions as adjectives do in, say, German or Russian (more like in Russian though). This system, hopefully, would both lead to a more capable sentence formatting structure and a more poetic result.
Here is an example of a noun and an adjective going through the cases:

fum (air) - fumal (atmospheric)
fum - fumk
fum(e)z - fumez
fum(e)ci - fumeic
fum(a)cu - fumauc

These endings represent the neuter declension of adjectives. There is also a masculine and a feminine gender but, in the languages spirit of gender neutrality, these are rarely used.

Moving on to verbs.

Sadly, I do not have a subjunctive mood at this point; however, I do intend to create it sooner or later. Aalmok verbs are conjugated into five tenses: the distant past, near past, present, near future and distant future. They also conjugate to reflect their antecedent. For the reason asserted in the previous sentence these antecedents are often unused if their identity is obvious.

Here is a verb conjugated through the tenses and antecedents:

momon - to speak

Distant Past:

momub - I spoke
momab - you spoke
momoib - he/she/it spoke
momuf - we(exclusive) spoke
momuaf - we(inclusive) spoke
momaf - you all spoke
momoif - they spoke

Near Past:

momu - I spoke
moma - you spoke
momoi - he/she/it spoke
momu - we(exclusive) spoke
momua - we(inclusive) spoke
moma - you all spoke
momoi - they spoke

Present:

momo - I speak
mome - you speak
momai - he/she/it speaks
momos - we(exclusive) speak
momoes - we(inclusive) speak
momes - you all speak
momais - they speak

Near Future:

moma - I will speak
momi - you will speak
momei - he/she/it will speak
momať - we(exclusive) will speak
momaiť - we(inclusive) will speak
momiť - you all will speak
momeiť - they will speak

Distant Future:

momag - I will speak
momig - you will speak
momeig - he/she/it will speak
momax - we(exclusive) will speak
momaix̌ - we(inclusive) will speak
momix̌ - you all will speak
momeix̌ - they will speak

There also exists a command form for 1st and 2nd persons, plural and singular, as well as for we(inclusive):

mom - speak (directed at ones self)
momp - let's speak(exclusive)
momap - let's speak(inclusive)
mom - speak (directed at an individual)
momp - speak (directed at a group)

Finally, there exists an ending for a root that turns it into an adverb: _s

This, I believe, is about as good an overview as one can get for Aalmok in its current form.

Currently Aalmok has approximately 670 documented words. I can put the list here if anyones interested.

Share your thoughts.
_________________
Fluent or nearly fluent in: English, German, Japanese
Mildly capable in: Spanish, Russian, French, Chinese

Constructed Languages: Aalsen, Aalmok Repurpose, Samamisu

.aď sodai peťs soks na asn;usts buntai mok aaťal. - One never truly knows a culture until they learn its language.


Last edited by LingoDingo on Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:08 pm; edited 14 times in total
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a lot of prepositions, probably more than the average natlang; but not as many as English has, which is more than almost any other natlang.

Good so far, IMO.

Have you stated your design goals? We can't really critique your 'lang except in relation to your own goals. If we say, for instance, how naturalistic or how realistic it is or isn't, that may not matter if naturalism and realism weren't among your goals.


BTW thanks for using "romanization" and "orthography" correctly!
Any wish for "cyrillicization" or "hangeulization" or any such thing?
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LingoDingo
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My intentions are honestly along the lines of what Zamenhof wanted with Esperanto. Although I'm trying to go about a little bit more comprehensively.
My vocabulary is totally original which is partly due to the fact that I saw that people had been having issues with Esperanto's occasional borrowed Germanic morpheme.

Tibetan inspired me to use an abugida for its legibility and brevity. I also got influence from Russian's heavy noun/adjective inflections as well as German's many single-word prepositions and the verb conjugation idea was influenced by the European languages in general.

Whether or not I had any other influences I can't really recall.

Essentially, my reasoning for Aalmoken was to make a language that would be fairly simple but still highly functional and hopefully better sounding and maybe even more poetic.

Quote:
BTW thanks for using "romanization" and "orthography" correctly!


Well, I do try to use words as they were intended.

Quote:
Any wish for "cyrillicization" or "hangeulization" or any such thing?


That's certainly a prospect to be considered. But at first thought it sounds like it could be pretty tough to work something out. Though I do recall the Cyrillic alphabet having a few other letter-forms. I'll have a look at that.
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Mildly capable in: Spanish, Russian, French, Chinese

Constructed Languages: Aalsen, Aalmok Repurpose, Samamisu

.aď sodai peťs soks na asn;usts buntai mok aaťal. - One never truly knows a culture until they learn its language.
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LingoDingo
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I've looked at possible transliteration systems and at this point all I have is a potential cyrillization.

Here's it compared to the romanization:

kugu todo paba ceje ˀi r ř y wu lo ma ne ňi xq sz fv uu ťoďo x̌aq̌a čeǰe hi ľ*

кугу тодо паба чэџэ ҁи рӱ ҏӓ йӥ ўу ло ма нэ ңи хӱӷӱ сӓзӓ фӥвӥ шужу ҭођо ҳаға щэҗэ ҕи ӆӱ

I'm not a hundred percent sure about this cyrillization as it has more common character modifications than the romanization. But I do think it looks cool, so, as I said, I'm not sure.**

* you may notice this l with caron character's absence from my original list. I actually forgot to modify the romanization system I had to include the trilled r that I gave a single character for in my last update to Aaliknk that I detailed in my last post to my conscript topic.

** now that I say that, I realize that 1. I didn't really have that many modifications and 2. I changed it so that there's essentially only three consonant modifiers and two vowel modifiers.
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Fluent or nearly fluent in: English, German, Japanese
Mildly capable in: Spanish, Russian, French, Chinese

Constructed Languages: Aalsen, Aalmok Repurpose, Samamisu

.aď sodai peťs soks na asn;usts buntai mok aaťal. - One never truly knows a culture until they learn its language.
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your last two posts inspire me to say "Cool!" Cool

I'm especially impressed that you've done the cyrillicization as well as the romanization.

What other widely-used scripts are there? Some Arabic scripts, right? But you'd need some way to indicate vowels -- "points" or something. Or, how about a Devanagari syllabary? Is that more or less wide-spread than Hangul?

Of course, if you do any of it, you'll just pull even further ahead of the pack.
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LingoDingo
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a potential "devanagarization" and "bengalization" (I don't know if there's a specific word for those):

kugu todo paba ceje ˀi r ř y wu lo ma ne ňi xq sz fv uu ťoďo x̌aq̌a čeǰe hi ľ

कूगू तौदौ पाबा चैजै ही रु ऱ यि वू लौ मा नै ऩी खुघु सष फिभि छूझू थौधौ ख़ाघ़ा छ़ैझ़ै ह़ी ल़ु

কুগু তদ পাবা চেজে হি টূ ট়ো যী ষু ল মা নে ঙি খূঘূ শোসো ফীভী ছুঝু থধ খ়াঘ়া ছ়েঝ়ে হ়ি ল়ূ

With some added by me conservatively for the 10 missing years of 2001 census I found numbers for speakers from, approximately 600 million people* use one of those two scripts in their native language in India, not including the people from Bangladesh who also speak Bengali.

I've certainly thought about Arabic but at this point all I could do is a written transliteration to that orthography, as I haven't encountered a computerized version that has the pointed Arabic form.

Many other systems also present issues like Japanese' syllabary which doesn't allow for any alterations more than what they already have.

I'll keep looking around but at this point it looks like most of any more transliterations I put here will be one of the Brahmi scripts since there so much like my own orthography, though if I can find another alphabet with enough symbols I might be able to put that together as well.

*That's almost 9% of the Earth's human population.
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Fluent or nearly fluent in: English, German, Japanese
Mildly capable in: Spanish, Russian, French, Chinese

Constructed Languages: Aalsen, Aalmok Repurpose, Samamisu

.aď sodai peťs soks na asn;usts buntai mok aaťal. - One never truly knows a culture until they learn its language.
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I thought it would make sense to go first for the "natscripts" that more people use.
600 million is about 10% of the world population, isn't it?
Which RL scripts are used by languages other than those for which they were first invented? Latin, obviously; also Cyrillic and Arabic; and what else?

LingoDingo wrote:
kugu todo paba ceje ˀi r ř y wu lo ma ne ňi xq sz fv uu ťoďo x̌aq̌a čeǰe hi ľ

कूगू तौदौ पाबा चैजै ही रु ऱ यि वू लौ मा नै ऩी खुघु सष फिभि छूझू थौधौ ख़ाघ़ा छ़ैझ़ै ह़ी ल़ु
Great! Cool

LingoDingo wrote:

কুগু তদ পাবা চেজে হি টূ ট়ো যী ষু ল মা নে ঙি খূঘূ শোসো ফীভী ছুঝু থধ খ়াঘ়া ছ়েঝ়ে হ়ি ল়ূ
Unfortunately I can't read that. Crying or Very sad
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LingoDingo
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Which RL scripts are used by languages other than those for which they were first invented? Latin, obviously; also Cyrillic and Arabic; and what else?


As far as I can remember, the only other currently used orthographies employed by languages other than the root language of the orthography are: Hebrew, the Cree Syllabary and the Chinese Logograms. There may be others currently extant but not in any considerable amount of usage.

Quote:
Unfortunately I can't read that. Crying or Very sad


Well, that sucks. I thought that was the prettiest one. Sad

(btw, how do I get it to say who I'm quoting?)

* I also just modified my original post to add the ľ and switch some IPA values I put in the wrong place (whoops).
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Mildly capable in: Spanish, Russian, French, Chinese

Constructed Languages: Aalsen, Aalmok Repurpose, Samamisu

.aď sodai peťs soks na asn;usts buntai mok aaťal. - One never truly knows a culture until they learn its language.
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LingoDingo wrote:
(btw, how do I get it to say who I'm quoting?)

In the upper right-hand corner of the post to which you are responding is a "quote" button. Click on that and it will quote that entire post with a "So-and-so wrote" line at the top.

If you don't want the entire post quoted, delete the parts not relevant to your response.

If later in the post you decide you need to quote somebody, when you highlight the text you're quoting and click on he "Quote" button at the top of the edit field, put an ="their name" after the word "quote" in the first bracket.
It'll end up looking like the following, except with the spaces removed:
Code:
[ quote = " LingoDingo " ] quoted stuff [ / quote ]


Hope that helps.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eldin raigmore wrote:

If later in the post you decide you need to quote somebody, when you highlight the text you're quoting and click on he "Quote" button at the top of the edit field, put an ="their name" after the word "quote" in the first bracket.


Thank you kindly.

I have three more possible transliterations to post, in order of: Oriya, Telugu and Tibetan:

କୁଗୁ ତଦ ପାବା ଚେଜେ ହୀ ରୂ ର଼ୋ ଯି ୟୁ ଲ ମା ନେ ନ଼ୀ ଖୂଘୂ ସୋଶୋ ଫିଭି ଛୁଝୁ ଥଧ ଖ଼ାଘ଼ା ଛ଼େଝ଼େ ହ଼ୀ ଲ଼ୂ
కుగు తొదొ పబ చెజె వి రూ ఱా ఞీ ఙు లొ మ నె ణి ఖూఘూ సాశా ఫీభీ ఛుఝు థొధొ టడ ఠెఢె హి ళూ

ཀུགུ་ཏོདོ་པབ་ཅེཇེ་ཧི་རྭ་ར༹ཾ་ཡྀ་ཝུ་ལོ་མ་ནེ་ནི༹་ཁྭཤྭ་སཾཟཾ་ཕྀངྀ་ཆུཨུ་ཊོཌོ་ཀ༹ག༹་ཙེཛེ་ཧི༹་ལ༹ྭ

They follow the original pattern of consonant names.

I've discovered that my "tibetanization" is by far my favorite as I find it to be aesthetically pleasing and it is the closest of all the transliterations to Aaliknk.

If everyone can read it I'd much like to use it over the romanization, but it seems a bit unlikely.
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Mildly capable in: Spanish, Russian, French, Chinese

Constructed Languages: Aalsen, Aalmok Repurpose, Samamisu

.aď sodai peťs soks na asn;usts buntai mok aaťal. - One never truly knows a culture until they learn its language.
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Kiri



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LingoDingo wrote:

If everyone can read it I'd much like to use it over the romanization, but it seems a bit unlikely.


I'm afraid that even in a forum like this, not everyone can read Tibetan (for instance, I can't). Feel free to use both simultaniously though, if it's not too bothersome. I can definitely take this chance to learn Tibetan! Smile
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Telugu looks beautiful.
I can't read the Oriya nor the Tibetan. That is, my computer can't.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiri wrote:
LingoDingo wrote:

If everyone can read it I'd much like to use it over the romanization, but it seems a bit unlikely.


I'm afraid that even in a forum like this, not everyone can read Tibetan (for instance, I can't). Feel free to use both simultaniously though, if it's not too bothersome. I can definitely take this chance to learn Tibetan! Smile


Well, when I said read I meant that their computer possessed the proper code points to represent it, though your comment still stands in that respect. I like the simultaneous idea; I think I'll do that.

Sadly you won't end up able to read Tibetan from my transliteration for two reasons: 1. My tibetanization is no more accurate to the original values than is my romanization and 2. Tibetan spelling is based on ancient, highly complex consonant clusters that have been reduced to one or two consonants in modern speech but retain the ancient spellings.

eldin raigmore wrote:
The Telugu looks beautiful.
I can't read the Oriya nor the Tibetan. That is, my computer can't.


The problem with Telugu is that, though it may be pretty, once one begins to use the consonant clustering one discovers some very odd ligatures which make little sense.

Darn! And always my favorite ones too.

(Btw, it's a bit nit picky but, "nor" should only be used in conjunction with "neither" or as the introduction to a related negative sentence. (Just thought you might like to know))

Are you guys still interested in seeing more transliterations or shall I stick to things more related to my language itself?
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Constructed Languages: Aalsen, Aalmok Repurpose, Samamisu

.aď sodai peťs soks na asn;usts buntai mok aaťal. - One never truly knows a culture until they learn its language.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My computer can read neither the Oriya nor the Tibetan.
Crying or Very sad

"Can't" is a contraction of "cannot". How do you contract "can neither"?
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Kiri



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LingoDingo wrote:
(Btw, it's a bit nit picky but, "nor" should only be used in conjunction with "neither" or as the introduction to a related negative sentence. (Just thought you might like to know))


Although it makes perfect sense, but as a rule it is my first time hearing this. What would you say Eldin's (I really want to use a Japanese style honorific here!) original sentence should've been like?
Eldin先生 wrote:
My computer can read neither the Oriya nor the Tibetan.
Is it this? Or is there another possibility?

Quote:
How do you contract "can neither"?
Even if such a contraction exist, I've never heard of it.

(As a funny sidenote, in my faulty English I always tend to use the word contradiction instead of contraction, until I realise that I know perfectly well it's a completely different thing Very Happy )
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LingoDingo
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiri wrote:
LingoDingo wrote:

(Btw, it's a bit nit picky but, "nor" should only be used in conjunction with "neither" or as the introduction to a related negative sentence. (Just thought you might like to know))



Although it makes perfect sense, but as a rule it is my first time hearing this. What would you say Eldin's (I really want to use a Japanese style honorific here!) original sentence should've been like?


It's just one of those obscure rules for an uncommon grammatical function.

Kiri wrote:
Eldin先生 wrote:
My computer can read neither the Oriya nor the Tibetan.

Is it this? Or is there another possibility?


That's it. It could also be, "My computer reads neither Oriya nor Tibetan," with essentially the same connotation.

eldin raigmore wrote:
How do you contract "can neither"?


Unfortunately, no such contraction exists.
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiri wrote:
(I really want to use a Japanese style honorific here!) ....
Eldin先生 wrote:
....

"Eldin Sensei", huh?
More like
先輩
, I think.
Is that "Eldin Sempai"?

I'm more a senior student than I am a teacher, professor, or doctor. And, really, I'm only senior compared to some, not to others.
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LingoDingo
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

先生 (hiragana せんせい, romaji sensei)

one who was born earlier; an elder
one who excels at a subject; a scholar
one who teaches; a teacher or professor
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.aď sodai peťs soks na asn;usts buntai mok aaťal. - One never truly knows a culture until they learn its language.
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LingoDingo wrote:
先生 (hiragana せんせい, romaji sensei)

one who was born earlier; an elder
one who excels at a subject; a scholar
one who teaches; a teacher or professor


Well, I'm flattered. Smile I'm not sure I deserve it, though. Embarassed
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Kiri



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm more a senior student than I am a teacher, professor, or doctor. And, really, I'm only senior compared to some, not to others.
If you feel more comfortably with "先輩", I will use that from now on Wink That is, if this forceful and unnatural japanisation doesn't bother you.
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