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To be, or not to be

 
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:02 am    Post subject: To be, or not to be Reply with quote

We've had to memorise this for English class, and I thought it might be interesting. Even just the phrase 'to be, or not to be' is interesting linguistically, as well as whatever poetic metre you might choose.

I haven't been doing much with conlanging recently, so I'll just do as much as I can in Japanese and the first line in Emitare (and Latin!)

The whole soliloquy is this:
Quote:
To be, or not to be, that is the question -
whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
and by opposing end them. To die, to sleep;
no more, and by a sleep to say we end
the heartache and the thousand natural shocks
that flesh is heir to. 'Tis a consummation
devoutly to be wished. To die, to sleep;
to sleep, perchance to dream - aye, there's the rub -
for in that sleep of death what dreams may come
when we have shuffled off this mortal coil
must give us pause. There's the respect
that makes calamity of so long life.
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
th' oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
the pangs of disprized love, the law's delay,
the insolence of office, and the spurns
that patient merit of th' unworthy takes,
when he himself might his quietus make
with a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear,
to grunt and sweat under a weary life,
but that the dread of something after death,
the undiscovered country from whose bourn
no traveller returns, puzzles the will;
and makes us rather bear those ills we have
than fly to others that we know not of.
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all,
and thus the native hue of resolution
is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
and enterprises of great pitch and moment
with this regard their currents turn awry
and lose the name of action.


EMI (hacked-together waka-esque thing):
Ero, erulo,
sevöri kera...
be-INTERROG, be-NEG-INTERROG -
search-NOM\ESS this\STAT


LAT (dactylic hexameter):
Esse, aut non esse, credo sic quaestio dicta...
be.INF, or NEG be.INF, think-1sg thus question.NOM say.PERF.PASS.PCPL-FEM.NOM
(lit. 'I believe the question that has been stated is thus' - expansion to fit the metre)

JPN (big long waka, but no archaic language - I'll only gloss the first):
いるか、いないか
iru ka, inai ka
be.here.SS INTERROG, be.here.MZ-NEG.SS INTERROG
質問や
shitsumon ya
question -- (yes, 'ya' actually translates to '--')
頭の中で
atama no naka de
どうすれば?
dou sureba?
ひどい運命
hidoi unmei
うけるのか、
ukeru no ka,
問題の海
mondai no umi
抗って
aragatte
果たせることか
hataseru koto ka
どれがいい?
dore ga ii? (this bit is kind of substandard)
死にも眠りも
shini mo nemuri mo
もうしない
mou shinai
「寝る」というのは
「neru」 to iu no wa
人生の
jinsei no
痛み悲しみ
itami kanashimi
終わること -
owaru koto -
本気で望む
honki de nozomu
事なのだ!
koto na no da!
死ぬか眠るか
shinu ka nemuru ka
夢見るか
yume miru ka
夢を見るのは
yume wo miru no wa
分からない。
wakaranai.
「寝」という死にで
「ne」 to iu shini de
どの夢を
dono yume wo
見るか言えない -
miru ka ienai -
待たせるね。
mataseru ne.

This is up to 'must give us pause...' - the rest might come later.
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achemel



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 555
Location: up for debate

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh gawwd, I remember being the ONLY one to recite this in 6th grade, so instead of making it an assignment our teacher made it extra credit. Before translating, have you seen this wonderful performance in Klingon?
it's pretty good I think
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

THAT IS AWESOME
THAT IS FRICKING AWESOME

Oh, and I want the whole text and a gloss really bad.
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achemel



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 555
Location: up for debate

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I can't do a gloss - I don't know Klingon myself (except that it's actually "tlhingan") but I found the ENTIRETY of the play "Hamlet" here, provided by the Klingon Language Institute, and within the text I managed to find this soliloquy:

taH pagh taHbe'. DaH mu'tlheghvam vIqelnIS.
quv'a', yabDaq San vaQ cha, pu' je SIQDI'?
pagh, Seng bIQ'a'Hey SuvmeH nuHmey SuqDI',
'ej, Suvmo', rInmoHDI'? Hegh. Qong --- Qong neH ---
'ej QongDI', tIq 'oy', wa'SanID Daw''e' je
cho'nISbogh porghDaj rInmoHlaH net Har.
yIn mevbogh mIwvam'e' wIruchqangbej.
Hegh. Qong. QongDI' chaq naj. toH, waQlaw' ghu'vam!
HeghDaq maQongtaHvIS, tugh nuq wInajlaH,
volchaHmajvo' jubbe'wI' bep wIwoDDI';
'e' wIqelDI', maHeDnIS. Qugh DISIQnIS,
SIQmoHmo' qechvam. Qugh yIn nI'moH 'oH.
reH vaq 'ej qIpqu' bov; mayHa'taH HI';
Dochchu' HemwI'; ruv mImlu'; tIchrup patlh;
'oy'moH muSHa'ghach 'Il vuvHa'lu'bogh;
quvwI'pu' tuv quvHa'moH quvHa'wI'pu';
qatlh Hochvam lajqang vay'? wa' taj neH lo'DI',
Qu'Daj Qatlh qIllaH ghaH! tep qengqang 'Iv?
Doy'moHmo' yInDaj, bepmeH bechqang 'Iv,
mISbe'chugh neHtaHghach, ghaH ghIjmo' DuHvam:
Hegh tlha' vay': Hegh tlha' qo''e' tu'bogh pagh.
not chegh lengwI'ma', qo'vetlh veHmey 'elDI'.
vaj Seng DIghajbogh, lajtaHmeH qaq law';
latlh DISovbe'bogh, ghoSchoHmeH qaq puS.
vaj nuch DIDa 'e' raDlaw' ghobmaj, qelDI'.
'ej, pIvmo', wovqu'taHvIS wuqbogh qab,
'oH ropmoH rIntaH Sotbogh qech ghom Hurgh.
'ej Qu'mey potlh DItulbogh qIl je qechvam.
vIDHa'choH nab. baQa'! *'ovelya* 'IH!
toH be', qa''a'pu'vaD bItlhobtaHvIS,
jIyempu' 'e' yIQIjchoH je.
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks! That's awesome. (The guy does seem to pronounce /q/ as /k/, but since there doesn't seem to be an actual /k/ in Klingon, you could probably explain it away by allophony (though I'm sure it's because the guy can't pronounce /q/)).

Klingon does have some weird orthographhy issues. Why is there <S> and <I> but no <s> or <i> ?
(Actually I think Zompist came up with a better one for it somewhere)
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Hemicomputer



Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 610
Location: Calgary, Alberta

PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tolkien_Freak wrote:
Klingon does have some weird orthographhy issues. Why is there <S> and <I> but no <s> or <i> ?

I think I can be of some assistance here. From what I remember of the KLI website, the letters I, S, D and H are always capitalized in tlhIngan Hol, mainly as a sort of reminder that they are pronounced differently than "usual" (as /I s` d` X/, respectively), as well as to add more "alien" flavour. q and Q are used to distinguish /q/ from /qX/. I've also encountered N and T in some less-credible sources, I'm not quite sure what they are intended to represent. Likely those are from old versions of Klingon or a misunderstanding of the capitalization rules.

Tolkien_Freak wrote:
(Actually I think Zompist came up with a better one for it somewhere)

A noble effort to be sure, it would be interesting to see how he handles a phoneme inventory so counterintuitive to nearly any Terran writing system.

It seems to me, though, as with English, the language just wouldn't have the same "feel" without its messy romanization. Serious Klingon speakers are quite dedicated, and the've put a good deal of effort into learning tlhIngan Hol as it is, not to mention writing a considerable body of work in/about the language as it is. A major change in orthography (ad it would have to be a major change) would probably not catch on unless it came right from Marc Orkrand (sp?).
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose that makes sense, but it still makes it a bit more difficult to type. <q> versus <Q> I can understand.

I would figure the best version is just uncapitalise the ones with no lowercase counterpart. (so <tlhingan hol>).
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achemel



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 555
Location: up for debate

PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use capitals versus lowercase in one of my conlangs because the sounds aren't quite one thing or another (namely /s/ and /S/ for [s] and a sound between [S~s`], or even more retroflex than [s`], and /t/ /T/ for [t] and something between [T] and [s\]) but I agree the Klingon orthography is a bit odd.

Here's a few lines of the soliloquy in Värhelklad dialect of Hemnälg.

To be, or not to be, that is the question –
Sury, på sjä sury; såm sar svurj –
/be-INF, or NEG be-INF that(n.) be-PRES3s.m. question/

whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
åasålå sar kön ärdepå gudjac så beskaldec
/whether be-PRES3s.m. more mannerly mentally so suffer-INF/

the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
lanårilå yĝ jemdelilå nelåt småhölud,
/dart-pl.m.-INST and arrow-pl.m.-INST cruel(f) fortune-of(f)/

or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
på rygarec tjäckurec stis bålanåj kenävnårna
/or raise-INF weapon-pl.m.-ACC.m. against “sea”-ACC.f. trouble-pl.n.-of(n)/

and by opposing end them. To die, to sleep;
yĝ lä tästekalå nästbur. Så tuskedec, så sybbec;
/and by oppose-INST make-end. so die-INF, so slee-INF/

no more, and by a sleep to say we end
sjä mönjå, yĝ i sybbe så muvnac bur
/NEG anymore, and as sleep so say-INF end-1.pl./

the heartache and the thousand natural shocks
fillegjörr yĝ gågåndar oppetar malvelana
/heart-pain and 1000 shock-pl.n. nature-of(n.)

that flesh is heir to. 'Tis a consummation
gyl himif pamj. Säĝ(1) dåf
/which man inherit-PRES. be-PRES3.m.s. consume-N/

devoutly to be wished. To die, to sleep;
gylic så hadil hadil ĝist ruch. Så tuskedec, så sybbec;
/which-ACC so earnestly earnestly have-INF desire. so die-INF, so sleep-INF/

to sleep, perchance to dream - aye, there's the rub –
sybbec, hast skågec hanstec – aj, såm sar sjvåd –
/sleep-INF, maybe possibly dream-INF – yes, that be-PRES3s. irritant/

for in that sleep of death what dreams may come
såfy små sybbec tusjud, rräb hangar sjvartjahö
/because that sleep-in(n) death-of(f), what dream-pl.(n) come-FUT-DUB/

when we have shuffled off this mortal coil
hvist njerdelel små suryg himifis det sår
/when writhe-PAST-PAST this existence-from(f) men-of(m) done be-PRES-1.pl./

must give us pause. There's the respect
så nåabja aj karnaj ynne. Såm sar böĝ
/so give-FUT yes we-DAT rest. There be-PRES3.s.m respect/

that makes calamity of so long life.
gyl näst jem böda löng surjilå.
/that make-PRES chaos so long(f) life-INST(f)/


(1) The use of /säĝ/ here versus Värhelkada /sar/ is to imitate the feeling of ' ’tis '. The standard form of the verb is /säg/, and Värhelklada sometimes turns word-final [g] and [r] into [ʁ~χ].
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Aert



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow, the Klingon one is actually pretty cool - I'm not a big fan of the way the language is constructed (or in fact the sharp cutoffs of most words), but the soliloquey was very well done!

I wish I could translate the whole thing into one of mine but I have neither the vocab nor the resources anymore, having lost the majority of my notes due to hardware failure... Maybe someday
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achemel



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 555
Location: up for debate

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is terribly unfortunate... Sad Did you have anything backed up on external drives, or even paper?
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achemel



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 555
Location: up for debate

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, so I haven't finished my translation yet, but it came to mind that I've heard the beginning of the soliloquy in Japanese as /ikiru beki ka, shinu beki ka/, and thought I would put that out there.
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, sounds about right ('should I live or should I die'), but it's a bit less poetic than it could be.
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achemel



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I kinda like it, for the nerdy reason that it pops up in a show I really like. Wink

Despite having four midterm papers to write I managed to finish my translation - upon checking this site analyzing "Hamlet" I was surprised to see how often my translation coincided with the more common wordings of some parts, like "that our bodies inherit" vs. "that the flesh is heir to." Anyway.

For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
Så det näck åsvjaji cörskal yĝ brayngår parna,
/because who bear-FUT lash-pl.n. and disdain-pl.m. time-of.n./

th' oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
kanäsjena sjinadet, älni susjes öfbal
/tyrant-of(n) wrongdoing proud(m) person-of(m) insult-pl.n./

the pangs of disprized love, the law's delay,
gläjfel aldna inel, naĝes ljården
/despise-PAST love-of(n) pain-pl.(n) law-of(m) delay/

the insolence of office, and the spurns
fane klårg jusblisa, yĝ känsel
/rude attitude government-of(n) and rejection-pl.(n)/

that patient merit of th' unworthy takes,
gyl skarda hår sjänjallana flyg,
/that patient(n) value NEGworthy.N-of(n) take-PRES/

when he himself might his quietus make
hvist rrit sis skaji glåra rritis hyga
/when he EMP can-3s.FUT find he-of peace/

with a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear,
äsen enilå? Näck åsvjaji pejgalec,
/common awl-INST.m. who bear-FUT burden-pl.m.-ACC.m/

to grunt and sweat under a weary life,
så dunkäsec yĝ luåmac vång surjål,*
/so grunt-INF and sweat-INF worn(f) life-by.f./

but that the dread of something after death,
åug så det jyb delda dara tusj,
/except then fear something-of(n) after death/

the undiscovered country from whose bourn
sjä eimisel hvåld gyla juvegåg
/NEG discover-PAST land which-of(n) boundary-from(f)/

no traveller returns, puzzles the will;
häa mibäs mömid, naplurj himmelangec;
/nary a traveler return-PRES, puzzle-PRES will-ACC.m/

and makes us rather bear those ills we have
yĝ karic hälång åsvjac kenävnår gyl ĝät kar
/and we-ACC.n cause-PRES bear-INF trouble-pl. that have-PRES we/

than fly to others that we know not of.
nu öruc isjarnaj gylic sjä mid.
/than fly-INF other-pl.n.-to(n) which-ACC.n NEG know/

Thus conscience does make cowards of us all,
Hast däsegar näst dulgar kar sårål
/thus scruple-pl.n make-PRES coward-pl.n we all-from(n)/

and thus the native hue of resolution
yĝ hast målvelun umbjå vänstena
/and thus natural(f) color resolve-of(n)/

is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
ärs ämsekel hvåsten umbjålå brydud
/get-PRES taint-PAST thin(f) color-INST.f thinking-of.f/

and enterprises of great pitch and moment
yĝ pångrel am nagänis yĝ belujna
/and undertaking-pl.n much strength-of(m) and importance-of(n)/

with this regard their currents turn awry
lyka brydålå mår hular puri nång
/this thought-INST.f such path-pl.n twist-PRES away(f)/

and lose the name of action.
ŷg så luck purdena syd.
/and so lose-PRES action-of.n name/


*In this sentence, “grunt” literally means “to speak Duun,” an immigrant language which to the kyllahän sounds primitive and like grunting, and “sweat” refers to the kyllahän bodily function, which is the running of moisture from the eyes. In order to preserve body moisture they lack sweat glands except around the eyes, which naturally must be moist anyway, but do have other dermal glands through which they can get rid of tissue waste. Sweating in the human sense is /esjdefölnpir/, or “water that runs from the (entire) body.”
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Aert



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@achemel: unfortunately, after I've done a very rough start on paper, and expand on it, everything is on the computer...
And I didn't back anything up, though I was Just about to do so when my external (where everything was stored) started dying... Evil or Very Mad

For me at least though, I've been more interested in the grammar and setup of the langs I've been doing as opposed to the vocabulary; that being said I have to recreate the vocab to try out the conlang's grammar/syntax...

It's not just the conlang stuff though - I had thousands of pictures as well, as I do a lot of photography, which I doubt I'll be able to get back anytime soon...

I do hope to do this soliloquey at some point though - it would be a great excercise!
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Kiri



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Latvia/Italy

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is (one of) the official Latvian translation(s) until the line "than fly to others that we know not of."

Latvian
Būt vai nebūt? Tāds ir jautājums.
Kas prāta cienīgāk: vai ciest tās šautras,
Ar ko mūs tirda saniknotais liktens,
Vai ieročus grābt pretī moku jūrai
Un viņas beigt ar varu? - Nomirt, aizmigt -
Ne vairāk; un teikt aizmiegot, ka gals
Ir sirdsdēstiem un sāpinājumiem,
Kas miesas daļa? - Tas ir sasniegums,
Viskarstāko vērts ilgu; - nomirt, aizmigt
Un miegā varbūt sapņot; - jā, te šķērslis;
Jo sapņi tie, kas nākt var nāves miegā,
Kad mirstīgie šie nokratīti režģi,
Liek vilcināties mums, šis ielāgojums,
No kura nāk pārilgās dzīves posts.
Kas ciestu laika sitienus un pulgas,
Varmāku spaidus, augsprātīgā nievas,
Nonicinātas mīlas rūgto smeldzi,
Valsts kalpu bezkaunības, beztiesību
Un kājas spērienus, ko pacietīgam
Un klausam nopelnam dod nicināmais.
Ja spētu katrs gūt savu mieru tikai ar asmeni?
Kas locītos zem nastām,
Kas stenētu un svīstu dzīves jūgā,
Ja nebūtu šīs bailes no kaut kā
Pēc nāves, šīs vēl neatrastās zemes
No kurienes neviens vēl ceļavīrs
Nav atgriezies? Tās mulst liek mūsu gribai
Un labāk nest tās likstas, kas jau ir,
Nekā uz jaunām, nezināmām lidot.

This would be deadly to gloss, but if anyone's interested, I'll do it Smile
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