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TC: Anthem

 
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Kiri



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Latvia/Italy

PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:39 pm    Post subject: TC: Anthem Reply with quote

I just saw "Chess" the musical (really, really good, I must tell you), and this song is, I think, really good for getting a sense of patriotism in your conlang.

No man, no madness
Though their sad power may prevail
Can possess, conquer, my country's heart
They rise to fail
She is eternal
Long before nations' lines were drawn
When no flags flew, when no armies stood
My land was born

And you ask me why I love her
Through wars, death and despair
She is the constant, we who don't care
And you wonder will I leave her - but how?
I cross over borders but I'm still there now

How can I leave her?
Where would I start?
Let man's petty nations tear themselves apart
My land's only borders lie around my heart
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like it. It's patriotic and not in an annoying way.

悲しいその力が勝っても、
kanashii sono chikara ga katte mo,
人も狂気も
hito mo kyouki mo
わが国の心を持てぬ、
waga kuni no kokoro wo motenu,
わが国の心に勝てぬ。
waga kuni no kokoro ni katenu.
それらは失敗するように上る、
sorera wa shippai suru you ni noboru,
彼女は永遠なり。
kanojo wa eien nari.
国の果ては描かれた前昔、
kuni no hate wa egakareta mae mukashi,
旗も軍隊もあらず、
hata mo guntai mo arazu,
わが国は生まれだす。
waga kuni wa umaredasu.

なぜ愛するかと聞く
naze ai suru ka to kiku
戦争も死にも絶望もあって、
sensou mo shini mo zetsubou mo atte,
彼女は変わらぬ、かまわぬ者たちのため
kanojo wa kawaranu, kamawanu monotachi no tame
われが離れるかなと言う - しかし、どうやって?
ware ga hanareru ka na to iu - shikashi, dou yatte?
果てを渡しても、まだそこにいるよ。
hate wo watashite mo, mada soko ni iru yo.

どうやって離れるか?
dou yatte hanareru?
どこから始めるだろう?
doko kara hajimeru darou?
人の卑小な国が自分を滅ぼせ。
hito no hyoushi na kuni ga jibun wo horobose.
わが国の果てはわが心の周りだけ。
waga kuni no hate wa kokoro no mawari dake.

(first verse only in Emitare)

Kudhaveyu kerelhe ösjieyu möre,
Taratuzjinü, kakhuruzjinü
Lezu, moveriamazu
Ölhe madha
Ana le ukhaliai
Uzathü sjidha
Madhalhe uza somakurane nelhe viri,
Talasje ayarule, ljatamoku voretureyu nelhe viri,
Zurelanu ölhe madha
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Kiri



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Latvia/Italy

PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe a gloss for Emitare and some kind of a direct re-translation for Japanese? (since it's hard to gloss)?
It just seems to me, that in Japanese the line order is somewhat different and, because I'm somewhat trying to learn the language, I'm interrested Wink

In the meanwhile (is there such an expression?), a really rough translation to Latvian:

Neviens cilvēks, nekāds ārprāts,
Lai arī kāds nebūtu viņu skumjais spēks,
Nevar iegūt, iekaŗot manas valsts sirdi,
Tie ceļas, lai ciestu neveiksmi.
Viņa ir mūžīga.
Ilgi pirms tika novilktas valstu robežas,
Kad vēl neplīvoja karogi, nestāvēja armijas,
Dzima mana zeme.

Un tu jautā, kādeļ viņu mīlu
Caur kaŗiem, nāvi un izmisumu?
Viņa ir pastāvīga, mēs, kam nerūp.
Un tu brīnies, vai viņu pametīšu? Bet kā?
Es ceļoju pāri robežām, bet vēl joprojām esmu tur.

Kā gan varu viņu pamest?
Kur gan es sāktu?
Lai cilvēku nevērtīgās valstis pašas sevi sagrauj!
Manas zemes vienīgās robežas ir ap manu sirdi.
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achemel



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 555
Location: up for debate

PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiri wrote:
In the meanwhile (is there such an expression?)


I think it's "in the meantime", but I've also heard people say "in the meanwhile" or even just "meanwhile"... A matter of preference, I suppose. Wink
_________________
I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
(more) Chinese, Swedish, Italian, German, Indonesian, Tagalog, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

achemel wrote:
I think it's "in the meantime", but I've also heard people say "in the meanwhile" or even just "meanwhile"... A matter of preference, I suppose. Wink

'In the meanwhile' sounds fairly unnatural to my ears, but the other two are fine. (I would expect 'in the meanwhile' to be a product of confusing the other two; since they're basically interchangeable, someone's bound to accidentally say both at once.)

Quote:
Maybe a gloss for Emitare and some kind of a direct re-translation for Japanese? (since it's hard to gloss)?

Sure ^_^
The Japanese is mildly archaic, since it seemed appropriate somehow. (Archaism in Japanese has a COMPLETELY different connotation than in English.)
(I'll gloss the Japanese too, I'll just use a lot of (whatever = whatever).)

JPN:

kanashii sono chikara ga katte mo,
sad.RT that(adj) power SUBJ win-て and (-て+も= 'even if'),
hito mo kyouki mo
person SUBJ.and madness SUBJ.and
waga kuni no kokoro wo motenu,
my country GEN heart OBJ have.KT-NEG.SS (KT=kateikei, a nebulously-defined form usually dealing with possibility. Modern Japanese has several actual forms that fall under 'kateikei'. In this case it = POT.),
waga kuni no kokoro ni katenu.
my country GEN heart (...ALL? DAT?) win.KT-NEG.SS.
sorera wa shippai suru you ni noboru,
that-PL TOPIC fail do.RT PURP (you ni can be for purpose) rise.SS (=shuushikei, the normal, uniflected form),
kanojo wa eien nari.
she TOPIC eternal COP.
kuni no hate wa egakareta mae mukashi,
country GEN limit/boundary/whatever TOPIC draw.MZ-PASS-PAST(.RT) front long.ago
hata mo guntai mo arazu,
flag SUBJ.and army SUBJ.and exist.MZ-NEG (this particular NEG in modern Japanese means 'without VERBing')
waga kuni wa umaredasu.
my country TOPIC birth.MZ-PASS-put.out.SS. ('dasu' is hard to translate.)

naze ai suru ka to kiku
why love do.SS Q QUOT ask.SS
sensou mo shini mo zetsubou mo atte,
war SUBJ.and death (=die.RY) SUBJ.and despair SUBJ.and exist-て,
kanojo wa kawaranu, kamawanu monotachi no tame
she TOPIC change.MZ-NEG.SS, care.MZ-NEG.RT thing-PL ('mono' = either 'thing' or 'person') GEN PURP
ware ga hanareru ka na to iu - shikashi, dou yatte?
me (archaic) SUBJ go.away.SS DUB QUOT say.SS - but, how (=what.method do-て)?
hate wo watashite mo, mada soko ni iru yo.
limit OBJ cross.over-て and, still there LOC exist (aru is for things, iru is for people) EMPH.

dou yatte hanareru?
how go.away.SS?
doko kara hajimeru darou?
where ABL begin.SS probably?
hito no hyoushi na kuni ga jibun wo horobose.
person GEN petty COP.RT country SUBJ REFL OBJ destroy.MR (=meireikei, IMP).
waga kuni no hate wa kokoro no mawari dake.
my country GEN limit TOPIC heart GEN area.around only.

EMI:
Kudhaveyu kerelhe ösjieyu möre,
win-if-and thing-DEM-POSS.ATT sad-ATT-and power\ACT,
Taratuzjinü, kakhuruzjinü
take-POT-NEG, defeat-POT-NEG
Lezu, moveriamazu
person-NULL\ACT, madness-NULL\ACT
Ölhe madha
me-POSS.ATT country\STAT
Ana le ukhaliai
rise person\ACT fail-NOM-BEN
Uzathü sjidha
end-NEG her(GAH, EMITARE PRONOUNS)\STAT
Madhalhe uza somakurane nelhe viri,
country-POSS.ATT end draw-PASS-ATT time-POSS.ATT front,
Talasjezu ayare, ljatamokuzu voreteyu nelhe viri,
flag-NULL fly-ATT, army-NULL stand-ATT-and time-POSS.ATT front,
Zurelanu ölhe madha
be.born me-POSS.ATT country\STAT

(some fixes in the Emitare, just so it's actually 'no flags flew', not 'flags didn't fly')

In both the Japanese and the Emitare I flipped the first two lines (because sticking a whole clause inbetween the subject and the verb doesn't seem right in Japanese, and in Emitare the verb comes first so it's either that or part of the third line becomes the first).
In the Japanese I split the third line because the verbs take objects in two different cases, and in the Emitare it just seemed better to split in two.
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Kiri



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Latvia/Italy

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cypotezo:

Nınque omo y nınque glocura,
Mezmo sí leum poxe trıste ıl pıete domınar,
Pıexa poxder, ceunquaër ıl corı dı mum pago.
Sı levon por pracsar.
Essa era æternagle.
Larmæn avañ e lımıtas d’e natıones etıan paçedas.
Quæñ e vañeras no mygí, quæñ e armatas no etí depé,
Ma tera etí nacoda.

Y ty mı quæres ¿porqué sı æmo
Por ı vellos, ıl mortı y la depera?
Essa era la conañe, nus quı no preñæmos ad corı.
Y ty mı quæras ¿lu partro – mas como?
¡Jo paxo e lımıtas mas æncór soı lac!

¿Como lu pıexo partor?
¿Ú comıñıo?
¡Que e natıones ınsınpıcañes d’ı omos sı rympıan ad pıtaços!
¡E sollas lımıtas dı ma tera sı ȷacta ad mum corı!
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Kiri



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Latvia/Italy

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if these translations are any good. If anyone can correct my mistakes, please do! I'm sure there are many.


French
Aucun homme ni aucune folie,
Malgré son triste pouvoir,
Ne peut posséder ou conquérir le cœur de mon pays
Ils se lèvent pour faillir.
Il est éternel.
Bien avant que les frontières des nations ne fussent faites
Avant qu’il n’y eût des drapeaux ni des armées
Mon pays était né.

Et vous me demandez pourquoi je l’aime
À travers les guerres, la mort et le désespoir ?
Il est la constante, nous ne nous intéressons pas.
Et vous vous demandez si j’en partirai – mais comment ?
Je traverse les frontières mais je suis encore là.

Comment peux-j’en partir ?
Où est-ce que je commencerais?
Que les pays insignifiants de l’homme se déchirent !
Les seules frontières de mon pays se trouvent autour de mon cœur.


Italian
Nessun uomo neanche una follia,
Malgrado il suo potere triste,
Può possedere o conquistare il cuore del mio paese,
Si alzono per fallire.
Lui è eterno.
Prima che le frontiere dei paesi fossero disegnati
Prima che ci fosse le bandiere e gli eserciti
Il mio paese era nato.

E voi mi domandate perchè lo amo
Attraverso le guerre, la morte e la desperazione?
È la costante, non ci interessiamo.
E voi vi domandate si ne partirò – ma come?
Attraverso le frontiere ma sono ancora là.

Come ne posso partire?
Dove comincierei?
I paesi insignificanti dei uomini ci strappino!
Le sole frontiere del mio paese ci trovano intorno al mio cuore.
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