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The Proverbs of Cordelier
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Cordelier



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 59
Location: New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:06 pm    Post subject: The Proverbs of Cordelier Reply with quote

To my fellow conworld creators,
There is a series of Proverbs, which one of my main characters, Cordelier, recites throughout my story, and I wanted to see if you, too, could translate them into your own conlangs. This topic is mainly for fun and diversity, so translate at your own free will.

Proverb 1:

English:
"There are three things that scream without cease, "Use me": the money that desires to be spent, the weapons that yearns to kill, and the vain words."

French:
"Il y a trois choses qui crient sans cesse, "Utilise-moi": la monnaie voulant être gaspillée, les armes qui désirent tuer, et les paroles vaines."

Árengwé (Elven Speech):
"Lle ther biritrien oménar n'idia iqil, "tílmer e'eino": el herek dhésinar theon thílmie, elen ilmiárim dhésinar lardon, a'len ülin'ando."

Bathgär (Stone Speech):
[To come soon]

-- Cordelier
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1- French
2- English
3- Créole

My Conlangs:
- Firstborn Speech (not named yet)
- Lion Speech (not named yet)


Last edited by Cordelier on Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Aeetlrcreejl



Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 839
Location: Over yonder

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:47 pm    Post subject: Re: The Proverbs of Cordelier Reply with quote

Cordelier wrote:
English:
"There are three things that scream without cease, "Use me": the money that desires to be spent, the weapons that yearns to kill, and the vain words."


Selvanian:

Sonc trū egmū tilūt šiğīntū, "Mēt tān": krȳsos piēnnos, tela kynēnta, verba vāna.
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Cordelier



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 59
Location: New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Aeetlrcreejl:
Interesting. Very nice language. How would you pronounce it, I lust to know? LOL!
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Aeetlrcreejl



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

/sontʃ truː egmuː tiluːt ʃiɣintuː meːt taːn kryːsos pieːnnos tel kyːnenta verba vaːna/
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kyonides



Joined: 28 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kexyana

Rivo Dissam thelo shes neinaulo "syaosh Neasa". Nivylgo thel Verze slageresh Leana haeli Erverze, fivylgo thelo Marnon rovulo ikerei, rivylgo thelo eurnon Lomon.

"Three things are and they desperately scream "use me". First it's money hoping there'll be a transaction with it, second there are weapons waiting to kill, third there are empty words."
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Cordelier



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Kyonides:
Wow, it is by far different than what I expected, to be honest (which I find it good)!
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
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Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woo, necroing. (I'm bored.)

The once again new-and-improved Emitare (yes, <th> is /T/):

Uzatjuriu 「serule oyu」 ryu darale kesa e: orulane evure oruyu, udjale evure kethayu, uzakara erule ryuyu.
end(trans)-NEG-ADV 「use-IMP 1.STAT」 QUOT.STAT yell-ATT thing-three exist: spend-PASS-NOM.STAT want-ATT money-and, kill-NOM.STAT want-ATT weapon-and, end-INDEF.STAT exist-NEG-ATT word-and.
'Three things exist that unendingly yell 「use me」: money that wants to be spent, weapons that want to kill, and words that do not have some end.'

'Pointless' is rendered by saying 'without some end' - at this point in time, 'uza' ('end') is beginning to shift to meaning 'point, purpose'.
'Oyu' ~= おれ。

(The Japanese quote marks are because I feel like it, they're not part of the romanization.)


Last edited by Tolkien_Freak on Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:47 am; edited 2 times in total
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Kiri



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Latvia/Italy

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel like presenting a little bit of my natlang to you, people Very Happy

Latvian:
Trīs lietas bez kavēšanās kliedz: "Izmanto mani!" - nauda, gribot, lai to tērē, ieroči, alkdami nogalināt, un vējā izmesti vārdi.

Haha, I'm feeling poetic tonight. "Vējā izmesti vārdi" literally means "words thrown in the wind", and you could just say "velti vārdi" or "veltīgi vārdi", thus indicating pointles or vain words, but, this way it sounds more like what usually sayings sound like in Latvian Very Happy
Plus, we really do say "viss vējā" (everything in the wind), when it seems like we've worked hard and nothing's come out of it, so it's not completely out of the blue Very Happy

Will attempt TŠL translation sometime Very Happy
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Tolkien_Freak



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to see a gloss of that - there's a lot more commas than I would have expected ^_^

I might do it in Japanese if people want.
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Kiri



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
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Location: Latvia/Italy

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Latvian seems to be quite heavy on commas, comparing to English, for instance Smile I have no idea how to gloss some things, but I'll use some made up ways of explaining it Very Happy

Trīs lietas bez kavēšanās kliedz: "Izmanto mani!" - nauda, gribot, lai to tērē, ieroči, alkdami nogalināt, un vējā iz-mesti vārdi.

Three things without cease.NOUN yell.3: "Use.IMP me.ACC!" money, want.UB, that it.ACC spend.3, weapons, crave.HB to.kill, and wind.LOC PRE-throw.PB words.

, where
NOUN - an ending that makes a verb into a noun.
UB - so-called un-inflectable participle
HB - so-called partially inflectable participle
PB - so-called past participle of the passive voice
PRE - a prefix, that, in this case, indicates, that the words have been thrown out in the wind

I must mention, that I could've used the participles differently, but there is no way I could've gone without them Smile
All the commas are there, because there is a rule about participal clauses and commas Very Happy

Any questions?
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Cordelier



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 59
Location: New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Everyone:
So much variety! Surprised
It has been a while since I didn't visit this website, so I am not that updated on the late changes. But wow! Anyhow, I shall update my Speeches soon, and post my calligraphic work some day. I have been busy...
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Cordelier: Nice to see you back. The variety is the fun part of conlanging ^_^

@Kiri:
See if I can help you a little on English terminology ^_^

Kiri wrote:
NOUN - an ending that makes a verb into a noun.

Probably glossed -NOM for nominalizer
Quote:

UB - so-called un-inflectable participle
HB - so-called partially inflectable participle
PB - so-called past participle of the passive voice

The UB and HB are special categories that Latvian has of (I assume present active) participles? Seems like a good gloss to me.
PB = -PAST (PERF?) .PASS.PART (PB is nice and compact compared to that ^_^)

Quote:
PRE - a prefix, that, in this case, indicates, that the words have been thrown out in the wind

Does it imply both that they are being thrown out of one thing and into another? IDK how to do that ^_^

Quote:
All the commas are there, because there is a rule about participal clauses and commas Very Happy

So Latvian requires commas around participial phrases? Does it around the complement to 'want' there?

I think I'm a bit confused on that phrase there. Money, that (i.e. the money) wants, that some third person subject spends it? Is the verb 'spend' there passive, and if so, why is 'it' accusative?

Gomen for all the questions ^_^


I'm bored, I'll do Japanese:
やめずに「俺を使え」と叫ぶのは、三つある:使われたいお金、殺したい武器、むなしい言葉。
Yamezu ni 「ore o tsukae」 to sakebu no wa, mittsu aru: tsukawaretai o-kane, koroshitai buki, munashii kotoba.

stop.MZ-'without' ADV 「I ACC use.MR」 QUOT yell.RT NOM TOPIC, three are: use.MZ-PASS.RY-VOL.RT HON-money, kill.RY-VOL.RT weapon, vain.RT word.

MZ = mizenkei = the 'negative' or 'unrealized' form, sometimes called 'irrealis'
ADV - IDK how to gloss it, 'ni' in this instance means that the word in front of it is taken as an adverb.
MR = meireikei = strong command form.
RT = rentaikei = 'attributive' form, used where English would use a relative clause - in all but one instance identical to the uninflected form (shuushikei)
NOM = nominalizer (acts half like a particle and half like a noun with no semantic content as the target of a rentaikei - i.e. 'that which is x')
RY = ren'youkei = 'continuative' form, used for a lot of stuff (in this case the volitive suffix requires it)
HON - honorific (makes slightly more polite speech)

Make sense?
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Zearen Wover



Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:24 am    Post subject: *Joins ritual* Reply with quote

Hmm, I'll give it a shot.



jehslil ahf' mongkief' tsaeler shol koe koesah loonerf' chiek' wae terf' chee. meltar nowtal shooboulf' keh koef' loonerboulf' chee, nowtal koe keh marReerf' zae hehper marReerkae chee, hehdal ahf' Lievelf' choek'.

stop -NEG-DROP loud-DROP talk QUOTE cause you.IMP become-DROP it.OPEN CLOSESET 3 -VERB-DROP it.USE. and-FOLD want money-DROP SUBJECT cause-DROP trade-DROP it.USE want cause SUBJECT dead-DROP A tool dead-NOM it.USE purpose -NEG-DROP word-DROP it.CLOSE CLOSESET.

The gloss probably makes no sense. I couldn't figure out how to do it. Exyan grammar is… different.
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Tolkien_Freak



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

'DROP'? 'OPEN CLOSESET 3'? 'FOLD'?

I'm curious.
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Zearen Wover



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

-DROP:
All Exyan tehvels (≈ verbs) take two poesehs (≈ nouns) by default. Adding f' to the end drops the first argument.

{it.OPEN, it.USE, it.CLOSE}:
The words chie chee and choe are used to describe ambiguous words between sentences. Chie is the first use, it's then chee for every intermediate use, and then choe when it's done being described.

CLOSESET
Certain words in open sets (QUOTE and FOLD here). K', or CLOSESET indicates the sets are done.

3: Uh this was just supposed to be the numeral three, I guess I did that wrong.

FOLD:
This is difficult to describe with out going into depth about Exyan. If you know anything about functional computer languages, it basically works like foldr. Here it basically ands everything in the set.

I'll make a topic for Exyan sooner or later. I'm just busy/a procrastinator.
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Kiri



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tolkien_Freak wrote:

@Kiri:
See if I can help you a little on English terminology ^_^

Kiri wrote:
NOUN - an ending that makes a verb into a noun.

Probably glossed -NOM for nominalizer

Thank you!

Quote:

Quote:

UB - so-called un-inflectable participle
HB - so-called partially inflectable participle
PB - so-called past participle of the passive voice

The UB and HB are special categories that Latvian has of (I assume present active) participles? Seems like a good gloss to me.
PB = -PAST (PERF?) .PASS.PART (PB is nice and compact compared to that ^_^)

Smile

Quote:

Quote:
PRE - a prefix, that, in this case, indicates, that the words have been thrown out in the wind

Does it imply both that they are being thrown out of one thing and into another? IDK how to do that ^_^


izmest vējā
to.throw out wind.LOC Wink

Quote:

Quote:
All the commas are there, because there is a rule about participal clauses and commas Very Happy

So Latvian requires commas around participial phrases? Does it around the complement to 'want' there?

Yes. And... what? Very Happy

Quote:

I think I'm a bit confused on that phrase there. Money, that (i.e. the money) wants, that some third person subject spends it? Is the verb 'spend' there passive, and if so, why is 'it' accusative?

I chose a more cokmplicated but betters sounding way.
I could've written "nauda, gribot tikt tērēta", where "tērēta" would be a past passive participle and together with "tikt" (which is a verb) would make the infinitive passive phrase (if that makes sense).
Instead I said "nauda, gribot, lai to tērē". And in this case there is a subordinate clause within a participal phrase, and both must be divided by commas. That's where all the commas come from Very Happy And yes, "lai to tērē" is active voice.

Quote:

Gomen for all the questions ^_^

It's ok, I kinda like talking about Latvian Very Happy
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Tolkien_Freak



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zearen Wover wrote:
-DROP:
All Exyan tehvels (≈ verbs) take two poesehs (≈ nouns) by default. Adding f' to the end drops the first argument.

So it drops the valence level by one. (I.E. all verbs start off transitive, and this makes them intransitive/passive.)

Quote:
{it.OPEN, it.USE, it.CLOSE}:
The words chie chee and choe are used to describe ambiguous words between sentences. Chie is the first use, it's then chee for every intermediate use, and then choe when it's done being described.

So various forms of 'it' to differentiate various things being referred to? I like it ^_^

Quote:
CLOSESET
Certain words in open sets (QUOTE and FOLD here). K', or CLOSESET indicates the sets are done.

Not sure I understand this - I don't quite get what you mean by 'sets'. Do you mean 'clauses'/'phrases'?

Quote:
3: Uh this was just supposed to be the numeral three, I guess I did that wrong.

No, I think I misread that as a phrase, i.e. OPEN CLOSESET 3, which wouldn't have made any sense in the first place. Razz

Quote:
FOLD:
This is difficult to describe with out going into depth about Exyan. If you know anything about functional computer languages, it basically works like foldr. Here it basically ands everything in the set.

I don't know much about computer langs, so IDK what foldr is. Does it mean that there's an 'and' implied between all nouns/verbs/whatever in the set?

Quote:
I'll make a topic for Exyan sooner or later. I'm just busy/a procrastinator.

Sounds very interesting, not often you have langs come through that are this different.

Kiri wrote:
izmest vējā
to.throw out wind.LOC Wink

So it's not necessarily out into the wind, just out (into the wind).

Quote:
Quote:
So Latvian requires commas around participial phrases? Does it around the complement to 'want' there?

Yes. And... what? Very Happy

I guess I just wasn't expecting the comma between gribot and lai to tērē.
I think I'm entirely confused on the grammar of that clause there. I guess for an IE lang I'd expect want spend-PASS-INF (which is the 'simpler' way you described) but the one you picked is more literally in English 'wants that it is spent'. I think my confusion comes from the fact that your gloss seems to read 'wants that (it, i.e. something else) spends it (the money)', i.e. your want that it.ACC spend.3.

Quote:
It's ok, I kinda like talking about Latvian Very Happy

Who wouldn't? ^_^
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achemel



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't worked with any of my languages since September I think, but here goes. Wink Hope I got them all. If anyone wants IPA or X-SAMPA of these I can add them then.

Ddamychal: halant pe etwnan tal gozla lat ga-lab “ha sethem”: al-ragyt tal isy hesat palekha, al-senani tal ézra gralach, ghe al-dukhin damwla.
GLOSS: be-PRES-3pl. 3 thing-pl. that-prep. scream-PRES without an-end, “I-m.-DOP use-IMP”: D.A.-money that-prep. want-pres-3s. INF be-STAT-INF spend-PAST-ADJ, D.A.-weapon-pl. that-prep. long-PRES-3s. INF kill-INF, and D.A.-word-pl. vain.

Tadváradcel: hysr igh thmaïl fýsth thob glyssähudv “sslyväes!”: brhú manth rwl myl hysrsslyves, cmhär manth hymyl ssges, ysth rh mýsný.
GLOSS: be-PRES three thing which scream-PRES with NEG-end-CONT “use-IMP-I”: money which have-desire-PRES be-spend-INF, weapon which wish-PRES kill-INF, and word vain.


It's very interesting looking at the posts so far! (^_^) I hope more people do this translation so I can stare at the awesomeness, haha.
Ra cel: ia ígh dhryrn cnù tébho yn-yfümëusaghmhách nvimẅj lí: csemèdhnü pru, dëgonünü námisn, clydn i tádunir.
GLOSS: be-PRES 3 thing-pl. that-PREP scream-PRES-D without ending-ADJ->ADV. “use-IMP me”-QUOTE: spend-PASS-VOL-3s. money, kill-VOL-VOL-3pl. weapon-pl., and word-pl. 1a1n vain.

Ualaxx: ocunaailailaigohoeelaecuuhhxxorruanäähhänaa “sainxaac”: məənhiieeaigamsaingohoececuuguuucageelaaumaiguucəəngohoececuucooeelagohhee
GLOSS: have-AOR-some-thing-NOM3pl.-CONJ3s.-NEG-end-AGENT3s.-scream-AOR, “use-IMP-1sts.-ACC-VOC”: money-NOM-VOL-PASS-use-thing-VOC-CONJ3s. –weapon-NOM3pl.-(augment)VOL-kill-thing-VOC-CONJ3s.-word-NOM3pl.-vain.

Hemnälg: sëg äs uttar gyl sjosch borso “garsa form”: mjuttar gyl nëroch sorglam, tjäckor gyl samneroch tygec, yr löngel haldus.
GLOSS: be-PRES three thing-pl. that-prep. scream without end “use-IMP I-ACC”: trade-item-pl. which desire-PRES be-use-PAST, weapon-pl. which need-want-PRES kill-INF, and word-pl. arrogant.

Nöra Hemnälg: sig äs uttar gyl sjos borso “garje fon”: muttar gyl neroch sorgran, täckor gyl samneroch ttynech, yr löngel haldus.
Burstänby Hemnälg: see äs udar gyl sjoch borsoo “garse form”: mjudar gyl neeroch sorgram, tjäckor gyl samneroch skigeck, yĝ löngel haldus.
Värhelklad Hemnälg: ser äs udar gyl sjåsjv bårså “garen farm”: mjudar gyl nyruch sårgram, täckår gyl samneruch tyĝec, yĝ löngel haldus.


It's been interesting looking at the posts so far! (^_^) I hope more people do this translation so I can stare at the awesomeness, haha.

@T_F, I like your Japanese translation - it sounds so nice and succinct.
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Zearen Wover



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tolkien_Freak wrote:
So it drops the valence level by one. (I.E. all verbs start off transitive, and this makes them intransitive/passive.)

Ostensibly, yes. Though, it's best no to think about it this way since the dropped argument isn't always accusative, I think it's called.

Tolkien_Freak wrote:
Not sure I understand this - I don't quite get what you mean by 'sets'. Do you mean 'clauses'/'phrases'?

A set is basically a list of things. So basically, it's a structure that contains multiple phrases within a phrase. Note that Exyan still considers solitary poesehs (≈ nouns) as phrases.
e.g.
{ 1 4 5 6 } is a set of numbers.
{ papaya orange banana pineapple } is a set of fruit.
{ money wants spent, weapons want to kill, the words that are useless } is a set of phrases.

Tolkien_Freak wrote:
I don't know much about computer langs, so IDK what foldr is. Does it mean that there's an 'and' implied between all nouns/verbs/whatever in the set?

As I used in the example, basically. However it's a tad more general then that. It takes a tehvel recursively over a list using the result of each statement as the argument with the next element. To really describe it, I need to explain a fair deal of grammar, but Wikipedia has a good page on its use in programming.

I hope that helps; I don't know a lot of linguistics.
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Tolkien_Freak



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gah, Ualaxx is frightening. Three fricken words.
And Hemnälg looks so Nordic that I always read it in my head with Norwegian tone patterns ^_^
I'd ask more questions, but it's a bit much information to process ATM. (Gomen!)

Quote:
@T_F, I like your Japanese translation - it sounds so nice and succinct.

Thanks ^_^
Quick question - my default kanji for kotoba is 詞 - I know it's weird, but how weird do you think it is?

Zearen Wover wrote:
Ostensibly, yes. Though, it's best no to think about it this way since the dropped argument isn't always accusative, I think it's called.

So sometimes it makes an intransitive verb (i.e. no patient) and sometimes a passive verb (no agent)? I assume the difference is marked by the subject's case (which in a way makes it sound like an active-stative alignment).

Quote:
A set is basically a list of things. So basically, it's a structure that contains multiple phrases within a phrase. Note that Exyan still considers solitary poesehs (≈ nouns) as phrases.
e.g.
{ 1 4 5 6 } is a set of numbers.
{ papaya orange banana pineapple } is a set of fruit.
{ money wants spent, weapons want to kill, the words that are useless } is a set of phrases.

Ah. I think I get it.

Quote:
As I used in the example, basically. However it's a tad more general then that. It a tehvel recursively over a list. To really describe it, I need to explain a fair deal of grammar, but wikipedia has a good page on its use in programming.

Have to take a look at that shortly. Thanks for answering my questions!
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