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achemel



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 555
Location: up for debate

PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought translating this one would be fun:

Aert wrote:
Quote:
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may know peace."
Thomas Paine



ra cel /necessity-have-past-passive-cond we trouble, have-imp-sub us in day-mine, so-that know-tent-sub child-mine peace/

tllthldhdh li ẅthẅ, allathlm lg by-hnnagh, ẅgh mahjmia lanagh bj.

Tadvradcel /if have-to-PRES (that) have-INF trouble, (then) allow-IMP (that) be-INF in my time, so that my child know-TENT peace/

no bherth manth rwlas birhth, ths fylch manth hysres ms ss tyss, hwy ss swa cui ssghth.

Hemnlg "if trouble is unavoidable, may it be in my time, so that my child might know peace"
/if trouble be-PRES neg-avoidable(n), somehow be-IMP my (f) time-in, so that my(f) child somehow know-FUT peace/

p knvn sg sj skoda, hast sgen lutt paric, s lutt ban hast mittji hyga.

Ualaxx uuhhirrn-ee-hh-m-ese-ssuuuhan-errii uu-ooa-neeg-aig-oon-aca-arri iooci-ooa-ee-heeiuuuhi-nee-aahan-hoo-ərr-exxxo
/trouble(3rd.sing.nom)-neg-passive-can-fight-if-then, time(1st.adj.)(3rd.loc.)-be-imp-vol-that, child(1st.adj.)(3rd.nom)-peace(3rd.acc/secondarynom)-feel-hyp-dub-longfut/

uuhiirrneehhmesessuuuhanerrii uuooaneegaigoonacarri ioociooaeeheeiuuuhineeaahanhooərrexxxo
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ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That Hemnlg sentence looks freakishly Scandinavian. Maybe the whole language does, but that sentence in particular struck me.

Thomas Paine wrote:
If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may know peace.

Emitare:
Ulae nereta kere, lhe irinamare nei, veraike lhe elunya naru.
ula-e ne-r-eta kere, -lhe irin-ama-r-e ne-i, vera-i-ke -lhe elunya naru.
bad-ATT time-COP-OBLIG if, 1.SG-DESCGEN[ATT] day-TEMPLOC-COP-IMP time-VOC, know-FUT-so.that 1.SG-DESCGEN[ATT] child[STAT] peace[STAT].
'If it must be a bad time; o time, be in my day, so that my child will know peace.'

OBLIG is 'obligational' mood - 'must' in the sense of 'it must be done'; as opposed to 'expective' mood - 'must' in the sense of 'it must be there'.

3rd-person imperatives and such optative statements put the verb in the imperative and the subject in the vocative.
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achemel



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

T_F wrote:
That Hemnlg sentence looks freakishly Scandinavian. Maybe the whole language does, but that sentence in particular struck me.


That is what I was aiming for with it. (^_^)

"Obligational" is a good term... Somehow when I translate stuff English fails me and I can never think of synonyms for anything without cheating with the Word thesaurus. Thus my equivalent of your "obligational mood" is "necessity," with each letter made of confused faces puzzling over a better word. Razz
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I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
(more) Chinese, Swedish, Italian, German, Indonesian, Tagalog, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

achemel wrote:
"Obligational" is a good term... Somehow when I translate stuff English fails me and I can never think of synonyms for anything without cheating with the Word thesaurus. Thus my equivalent of your "obligational mood" is "necessity," with each letter made of confused faces puzzling over a better word. Razz


Razz
'Necessity' (or some form with -ive, I have no idea how to do that since both 'necessive' and 'necessitive' sound wrong) seems like a reasonable equivalent of 'obligational'.
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achemel



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose so. "Obligational" sounds much better to my ears though. (^_^) Likely I'll forget it the next time I need such a word, though, and go back to my brainfail vocabulary.
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I would like to learn:
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Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah
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eldin raigmore
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Joined: 03 May 2007
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Location: SouthEast Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tolkien_Freak wrote:

'Necessity' (or some form with -ive, I have no idea how to do that since both 'necessive' and 'necessitive' sound wrong) seems like a reasonable equivalent of 'obligational'.
To me, both
"necessitative"
and
"necessitive"
sound OK.

But you could name that mood "you just gotta do it". That'd work too.
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achemel



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oooo, I like that too. Kinda like my "haha that sucks for you" mood, heh.
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English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
(more) Chinese, Swedish, Italian, German, Indonesian, Tagalog, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like those names too - more to-the-point and understandable than Latin.

And I love the concept of a 'haha that sucks for you' mood. How many other 'emotional response' moods does that lang have?
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achemel



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a few; my favorites besides the "haha" one are the "what, are you crazy?!" mood (insert open-rough screams) and the "what you said ticks me off so I'm gonna bite you" mood (insert /qqq/). (^_^)
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I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
(more) Chinese, Swedish, Italian, German, Indonesian, Tagalog, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah
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Tolkien_Freak



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's freakin awesome.

Emitare has 'this is a good thing' and 'this is a bad thing', but nothing more like what you've got.
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achemel



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy I do enjoy learning more and more about hellcats and their language. I hope I get an opportunity in the very near future to make some recordings to share - likely it'll be difficult once I return to school, due to the screaming, so I'll keep a sharp eye out.

Hellcat also has a benefactive mood ("wow this is FANTASTIC!!!" for extreme pleasure at a voluntary action, and "oh, I'm so happy! You finally got around to doing what I told you to do!" for (low~middling) pleasure at fulfilment of a request or order/demand) and the other one ("crudmuffin!" formed by inserting "crudmuffin" between every word - /ugugAa/). Oh, and there's the stress mood, relating a sense of "oh NO what do I DO?!?!" (insert a prolonged closed-nasal scream), which is homophonous with the "not saying what you're really thinking" mood, used to blatantly lie; e.g. in response to receiving a handful of creepy crawlies from your little cousin, "Oh (OH!) thanks (DEAR GOD!!), Little (THAT'S) Timmy (DISGUSTING!!!!)!"
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English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
(more) Chinese, Swedish, Italian, German, Indonesian, Tagalog, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah
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Cordelier



Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 59
Location: New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

killerken wrote:
L'etat c'est moi! -Louis XIV

I actually don't know how to translate this one yet. It depends on if you translate it as "I am the state" or "The state, it is me!"


"L'tat c'est moi" is like saying "I am the state", referring to his authority over his kingdom (or dominion or whatever he was referring to), as you probably know by now.
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Tolkien_Freak



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, literally it is 'the state, it is me', but it's actually less weird to say it that way in French than to say it the way English speakers think it.
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Cordelier



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree... Sometimes, I think French sounds and is better than English, and surely (100%) more poetic!. Very Happy
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killerken



Joined: 30 Sep 2008
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Location: Florida

PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

L'etat c'est moi! =Louis XIV

Calenoro osĉ lrvỉ n! =Voen rus istol

Nation(S) 1st-person(DO) to-be pres-ind! =King of star-great (ie. the Sun)

PS: Yay! Triple digit posts!
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Hemicomputer



Joined: 04 Feb 2008
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Location: Calgary, Alberta

PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations on 100!

Why is Louis XIV "king of the Sun"?
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killerken



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's known as the Sun King because he was so awesome. Here's the Sun King on Wikipedia.
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cordelier wrote:
killerken wrote:
L'etat c'est moi! -Louis XIV

I actually don't know how to translate this one yet. It depends on if you translate it as "I am the state" or "The state, it is me!"


"L'tat c'est moi" is like saying "I am the state", referring to his authority over his kingdom (or dominion or whatever he was referring to), as you probably know by now.

I thought it had to do with the "one man, one vote" system; Louis was the Man, and he had the Vote.
Everyone had a say in governing France unless disqualified by age or by not being King Louis.
It was an expression of absolutism (as in "absolute monarch") or "benevolent despotism" (well, he got the despotism right; don't know about the benevolence.)
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Last edited by eldin raigmore on Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

achemel wrote:
:D I do enjoy learning more and more about hellcats and their language. I hope I get an opportunity in the very near future to make some recordings to share - likely it'll be difficult once I return to school, due to the screaming, so I'll keep a sharp eye out.

Hellcat also has a benefactive mood ("wow this is FANTASTIC!!!" for extreme pleasure at a voluntary action, and "oh, I'm so happy! You finally got around to doing what I told you to do!" for (low~middling) pleasure at fulfilment of a request or order/demand) and the other one ("crudmuffin!" formed by inserting "crudmuffin" between every word - /ugugAa/). Oh, and there's the stress mood, relating a sense of "oh NO what do I DO?!?!" (insert a prolonged closed-nasal scream), which is homophonous with the "not saying what you're really thinking" mood, used to blatantly lie; e.g. in response to receiving a handful of creepy crawlies from your little cousin, "Oh (OH!) thanks (DEAR GOD!!), Little (THAT'S) Timmy (DISGUSTING!!!!)!"


Does anyone besides me think the discussions of moods that have been brought up in this thread ought to be split to form their own thread? I think they're great, but they're not all quotes.
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Hemicomputer



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. The moods should be split. Perhaps to go in conlangs, or in random chat.
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