| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
achemel
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 371
Location: inside... or maybe outside?
|
 Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:49 am Post subject: |
 |
|
I thought translating this one would be fun:
| Aert wrote: | | Quote: | "If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may know peace."
Thomas Paine |
|
ra cel – /necessity-have-past-passive-cond we trouble, have-imp-sub us in day-mine, so-that know-tent-sub child-mine peace/
töllthlâdhëdh lëi ẅthẅ, allathlâm lóg by-hônnagh, ẅghé mahjämia lanagh bäjá.
Tadváradcel – /if have-to-PRES (that) have-INF trouble, (then) allow-IMP (that) be-INF in my time, so that my child know-TENT peace/
no bàherth manth rwlas büirhth, thòs fylcòh manth hysres mýs ýss tyss, hwy ýss swa cuië ssíghthò.
Hemnälg – "if trouble is unavoidable, may it be in my time, so that my child might know peace"
/if trouble be-PRES neg-avoidable(n), somehow be-IMP my (f) time-in, so that my(f) child somehow know-FUT peace/
på kënävn säg sjä skoda, hast sägen lutt paric, så lutt ban hast mittji hyga.
Ualaxx – uuhhirrn-ee-hh-m-ese-ssuuuhan-errii uu-ooa-neeg-aig-oon-aca-arri iooci-ooa-ee-heeiuuuhi-nee-aahan-hoo-ərr-exxxo
/trouble(3rd.sing.nom)-neg-passive-can-fight-if-then, time(1st.adj.)(3rd.loc.)-be-imp-vol-that, child(1st.adj.)(3rd.nom)-peace(3rd.acc/secondarynom)-feel-hyp-dub-longfut/
uuhiirrneehhmesessuuuhanerrii uuooaneegaigoonacarri ioociooaeeheeiuuuhineeaahanhooərrexxxo
_________________
ssvòä bïe es lýra, weave for me a dream. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Tolkien_Freak
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 872
Location: Everu
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
That Hemnälg sentence looks freakishly Scandinavian. Maybe the whole language does, but that sentence in particular struck me.
| Thomas Paine wrote: | | If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may know peace. |
Emitare:
Ulae nereta kere, ölhe irinamare nei, veraike ölhe elunya önaru.
ula-e ne-r-eta kere, ö-lhe irin-ama-r-e ne-i, vera-i-ke ö-lhe elunya önaru.
bad-ATT time-COP-OBLIG if, 1.SG-DESCGEN[ATT] day-TEMPLOC-COP-IMP time-VOC, know-FUT-so.that 1.SG-DESCGEN[ATT] child[STAT] peace[STAT].
'If it must be a bad time; o time, be in my day, so that my child will know peace.'
OBLIG is 'obligational' mood - 'must' in the sense of 'it must be done'; as opposed to 'expective' mood - 'must' in the sense of 'it must be there'.
3rd-person imperatives and such optative statements put the verb in the imperative and the subject in the vocative.
_________________
'We are the knights who say, "に!"'
「私たちに理性と知性を与えた神は、その神と同じのは、その使いを捨てるつもりがあると信じざるを得なさそうではない。｣
－ガリレオ･ガリレイ
My friend, after an intense 10-minute session of being yelled at by my Latin teacher: 'Well, at least I know my verb cases...' |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
achemel
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 371
Location: inside... or maybe outside?
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| T_F wrote: | | That Hemnälg sentence looks freakishly Scandinavian. Maybe the whole language does, but that sentence in particular struck me. |
That is what I was aiming for with it. (^_^)
"Obligational" is a good term... Somehow when I translate stuff English fails me and I can never think of synonyms for anything without cheating with the Word thesaurus. Thus my equivalent of your "obligational mood" is "necessity," with each letter made of confused faces puzzling over a better word. 
_________________
ssvòä bïe es lýra, weave for me a dream. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tolkien_Freak
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 872
Location: Everu
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| achemel wrote: | | "Obligational" is a good term... Somehow when I translate stuff English fails me and I can never think of synonyms for anything without cheating with the Word thesaurus. Thus my equivalent of your "obligational mood" is "necessity," with each letter made of confused faces puzzling over a better word. |
'Necessity' (or some form with -ive, I have no idea how to do that since both 'necessive' and 'necessitive' sound wrong) seems like a reasonable equivalent of 'obligational'.
_________________
'We are the knights who say, "に!"'
「私たちに理性と知性を与えた神は、その神と同じのは、その使いを捨てるつもりがあると信じざるを得なさそうではない。｣
－ガリレオ･ガリレイ
My friend, after an intense 10-minute session of being yelled at by my Latin teacher: 'Well, at least I know my verb cases...' |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
achemel
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 371
Location: inside... or maybe outside?
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I suppose so. "Obligational" sounds much better to my ears though. (^_^) Likely I'll forget it the next time I need such a word, though, and go back to my brainfail vocabulary.
_________________
ssvòä bïe es lýra, weave for me a dream. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
eldin raigmore
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 984
Location: SouthEast Michigan
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Tolkien_Freak wrote: |
'Necessity' (or some form with -ive, I have no idea how to do that since both 'necessive' and 'necessitive' sound wrong) seems like a reasonable equivalent of 'obligational'. |
To me, both
"necessitative"
and
"necessitive"
sound OK.
But you could name that mood "you just gotta do it". That'd work too.
_________________
Therefore love the child who holds your hand; and let your wife delight in your embrace; for this is the lot of mankind to enjoy:
But immortal life is not for men. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
achemel
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 371
Location: inside... or maybe outside?
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
Oooo, I like that too. Kinda like my "haha that sucks for you" mood, heh.
_________________
ssvòä bïe es lýra, weave for me a dream. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tolkien_Freak
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 872
Location: Everu
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
I like those names too - more to-the-point and understandable than Latin.
And I love the concept of a 'haha that sucks for you' mood. How many other 'emotional response' moods does that lang have?
_________________
'We are the knights who say, "に!"'
「私たちに理性と知性を与えた神は、その神と同じのは、その使いを捨てるつもりがあると信じざるを得なさそうではない。｣
－ガリレオ･ガリレイ
My friend, after an intense 10-minute session of being yelled at by my Latin teacher: 'Well, at least I know my verb cases...' |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
achemel
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 371
Location: inside... or maybe outside?
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
There are a few; my favorites besides the "haha" one are the "what, are you crazy?!" mood (insert open-rough screams) and the "what you said ticks me off so I'm gonna bite you" mood (insert /qqq/). (^_^)
_________________
ssvòä bïe es lýra, weave for me a dream. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tolkien_Freak
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 872
Location: Everu
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
That's freakin awesome.
Emitare has 'this is a good thing' and 'this is a bad thing', but nothing more like what you've got.
_________________
'We are the knights who say, "に!"'
「私たちに理性と知性を与えた神は、その神と同じのは、その使いを捨てるつもりがあると信じざるを得なさそうではない。｣
－ガリレオ･ガリレイ
My friend, after an intense 10-minute session of being yelled at by my Latin teacher: 'Well, at least I know my verb cases...' |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
achemel
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 371
Location: inside... or maybe outside?
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
 I do enjoy learning more and more about hellcats and their language. I hope I get an opportunity in the very near future to make some recordings to share - likely it'll be difficult once I return to school, due to the screaming, so I'll keep a sharp eye out.
Hellcat also has a benefactive mood ("wow this is FANTASTIC!!!" for extreme pleasure at a voluntary action, and "oh, I'm so happy! You finally got around to doing what I told you to do!" for (low~middling) pleasure at fulfilment of a request or order/demand) and the other one ("crudmuffin!" formed by inserting "crudmuffin" between every word - /ugugAa/). Oh, and there's the stress mood, relating a sense of "oh NO what do I DO?!?!" (insert a prolonged closed-nasal scream), which is homophonous with the "not saying what you're really thinking" mood, used to blatantly lie; e.g. in response to receiving a handful of creepy crawlies from your little cousin, "Oh (OH!) thanks (DEAR GOD!!), Little (THAT'S) Timmy (DISGUSTING!!!!)!"
_________________
ssvòä bïe es lýra, weave for me a dream. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cordelier
Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 22
Location: New Mexico, USA
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| killerken wrote: | L'etat c'est moi! -Louis XIV
I actually don't know how to translate this one yet. It depends on if you translate it as "I am the state" or "The state, it is me!"
|
"L'état c'est moi" is like saying "I am the state", referring to his authority over his kingdom (or dominion or whatever he was referring to), as you probably know by now.
_________________
Languages spoken:
1- French
2- English
3- Créole
My Conlangs:
- Unengwé (Elvish Speech)
- Bathgär (Dwarvish Speech)
- Amaviric (Daishiru Variant)
- Egyptar (Daishiru Variant)
- Draconian
- Kror (Eastern-Men Speech)
- Quria (Southern-Men Speech) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tolkien_Freak
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 872
Location: Everu
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, literally it is 'the state, it is me', but it's actually less weird to say it that way in French than to say it the way English speakers think it.
_________________
'We are the knights who say, "に!"'
「私たちに理性と知性を与えた神は、その神と同じのは、その使いを捨てるつもりがあると信じざるを得なさそうではない。｣
－ガリレオ･ガリレイ
My friend, after an intense 10-minute session of being yelled at by my Latin teacher: 'Well, at least I know my verb cases...' |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cordelier
Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 22
Location: New Mexico, USA
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I agree... Sometimes, I think French sounds and is better than English, and surely (100%) more poetic!.
_________________
Languages spoken:
1- French
2- English
3- Créole
My Conlangs:
- Unengwé (Elvish Speech)
- Bathgär (Dwarvish Speech)
- Amaviric (Daishiru Variant)
- Egyptar (Daishiru Variant)
- Draconian
- Kror (Eastern-Men Speech)
- Quria (Southern-Men Speech) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
killerken
Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 107
Location: Florida
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
L'etat c'est moi! =Louis XIV
Calenoro osĉ lârvỉ ðân! =Voþen rus istolî
Nation(S) 1st-person(DO) to-be pres-ind! =King of star-great (ie. the Sun)
PS: Yay! Triple digit posts!
_________________
Speak: English, Spanish
Invent: Fidhaas
Learn: Polish
Awesome: Yes |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hemicomputer
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 537
Location: Calgary, Alberta
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
Congratulations on 100!
Why is Louis XIV "king of the Sun"?
_________________
The past sure is tense... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
killerken
Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 107
Location: Florida
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
He's known as the Sun King because he was so awesome. Here's the Sun King on Wikipedia.
_________________
Speak: English, Spanish
Invent: Fidhaas
Learn: Polish
Awesome: Yes |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
eldin raigmore
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 984
Location: SouthEast Michigan
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Cordelier wrote: | | killerken wrote: | L'etat c'est moi! -Louis XIV
I actually don't know how to translate this one yet. It depends on if you translate it as "I am the state" or "The state, it is me!"
|
"L'état c'est moi" is like saying "I am the state", referring to his authority over his kingdom (or dominion or whatever he was referring to), as you probably know by now. |
I thought it had to do with the "one man, one vote" system; Louis was the Man, and he had the Vote.
Everyone had a say in governing France unless disqualified by age or by not being King Louis.
It was an expression of absolutism (as in "absolute monarch") or "benevolent despotism" (well, he got the despotism right; don't know about the benevolence.)
_________________
Therefore love the child who holds your hand; and let your wife delight in your embrace; for this is the lot of mankind to enjoy:
But immortal life is not for men.
Last edited by eldin raigmore on Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
eldin raigmore
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 984
Location: SouthEast Michigan
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| achemel wrote: | :D I do enjoy learning more and more about hellcats and their language. I hope I get an opportunity in the very near future to make some recordings to share - likely it'll be difficult once I return to school, due to the screaming, so I'll keep a sharp eye out.
Hellcat also has a benefactive mood ("wow this is FANTASTIC!!!" for extreme pleasure at a voluntary action, and "oh, I'm so happy! You finally got around to doing what I told you to do!" for (low~middling) pleasure at fulfilment of a request or order/demand) and the other one ("crudmuffin!" formed by inserting "crudmuffin" between every word - /ugugAa/). Oh, and there's the stress mood, relating a sense of "oh NO what do I DO?!?!" (insert a prolonged closed-nasal scream), which is homophonous with the "not saying what you're really thinking" mood, used to blatantly lie; e.g. in response to receiving a handful of creepy crawlies from your little cousin, "Oh (OH!) thanks (DEAR GOD!!), Little (THAT'S) Timmy (DISGUSTING!!!!)!" |
Does anyone besides me think the discussions of moods that have been brought up in this thread ought to be split to form their own thread? I think they're great, but they're not all quotes.
_________________
Therefore love the child who holds your hand; and let your wife delight in your embrace; for this is the lot of mankind to enjoy:
But immortal life is not for men. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hemicomputer
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 537
Location: Calgary, Alberta
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
I agree. The moods should be split. Perhaps to go in conlangs, or in random chat.
_________________
The past sure is tense... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
