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TC: The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

achemel wrote:
It would be cool if the nonsense words in "Jabberwocky" meant something in someone's conlang, randomly. (^_^) How would they translate it then, I wonder?


Put in random English words ^_^
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achemel



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha, that seems very likely. I wonder what kind of accent a native speaker of a conlang would have when speaking English.
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killerken



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hm...that's a good question. I've noticed that a lot of accents come from reading the similar letters and applying the native sound instead of the correct one. Live Germans pronouncing w like v. I don't really know where accents come from for languages like Russian, that is, Indo-european languages that don't use the Latin alphabet. Those accents are probably based more on intonation and stress.

On a side note, what are kanji?
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achemel



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kanji are the Chinese characters the Japanese stole and now use in combination with their native syllabaries.

...Well, Chinese was the language of the learned, and they just used the writing until they figured out their own, anyway. I think. Wink Tolkien_Freak or somebody might have a more coherent answer...
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killerken



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see. That makes sense. I now remember learning this is back in ninth grade world history. Those were the days, ehh...? Laughing
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achemel



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ohhh ninth grade... I think that was the worst year of my life. Laughing Although, that was the year I started learning Japanese, and Spanish, so maybe it wasn't so bad after all, haha.
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Tolkien_Freak



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ninth grade was last year for me. Weird year, but not as homework-full as this one was.

Kanji are indeed Chinese characters adopted into Japanese (Kanji itself is a translinguation (I think that's what I'm going to call deliberately adopted loan words and the like now) of a Chinese word that I believe to be something like hanjie or something.) Their history (and the history of kana) in Japanese works like this:

Initially, back in like the 400's and before when Japanese had no writing system at all, people could only write anything down in Chinese with Chinese characters. After a while they got sick of this (it's not a very good arrangement, obviously), and started using the phonetic values of some characters independent of their meaning. However, there was no way to mark whether a character was being used for its meaning or its sound, and some were 8 or more strokes just to write one syllable. Out of the phonetic characters they simplified the kana, and now use both together. (The kana were invented around the 700's.)
Kanji can be used for both translinguations of their Chinese sounds (on'yomi) or for native Japanese sounds (kun'yomi).

A couple of examples of their use are thus:
風: kaze (wind, kun'yomi)
人間: ningen (human, on'yomi of both)
終わる: owaru (to end, kun'yomi plus okurigana (the kana that make up the rest of the word, the kanji just stands in the place of the o: KANJI-wa-ru))
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Aeetlrcreejl



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I loved ninth grade, which ended a few weeks ago.
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Tolkien_Freak



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I now remember learning this is back in ninth grade world history. Those were the days, ehh...?

TOTAL OFF TOPIC:

Ninth grade world history has to be the best class I have ever had. We had 6 people in our class and a guy that has to be one of the best teachers in our school. All we did was do questions out of the book for half of class and then sit around and talk for the other half, and yet we still learned stuff. It was amazing. (He would spend whole class periods telling us about what he did over breaks, and we would be bent over laughing the whole time.)
We get him for government next year ^_^, but unfortunately our class will be much larger (and filled with idiots).
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Aert



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All right, so here's that new 'lang I'm working on (same vocab, different spelling/orthography etc) - the name of which has now changed to S'ǽrt /Se(I)rIt/.

Order: VSO, Verb-Aspect, Person-Noun, Noun-Adjective.

Conjugation: suffix for each person; aspect is on a - auxiliary verb, which also includes the tense.

Gloss
Quote:

DEF road NEG travel.ADJ

diverge PAST two road.PL in IND forest yellow
and travel.1SG PAST.COND both NEG can.1SG, sorry
and be_equator one traveler stand.1SG PAST long
and look.1SG down PAST one (TWWSB) as far as able.1SG PAST
to where bend.3SG.N PAST in DEF undergrowth

then walk.1SG PAST DEF other, nice equally
and have GER perhaps DEF claim good.COMPR
because be_cond grassy 3SG.N PAST and want PAST 3SG.N walk_on GER
though (TWWSB) DEF walk GER there
wear_down PAST.PFTV 3PL.INAN equal approximately

and lie PAST equally both that morning
on leave.PL that NEG walk_on GER make black PFTV
oh, keep.1SG PAST DEF first for another day
however, because (of) DEF way that tend path.PL to(wards) path.PL
doubt.1SG that EMPH return.1SG FUT

tell.1SG FUT.GER this COMIT IND sigh
somewhere time.PL.SUPER and time.PL.SUPER later
diverge PAST two road.PL in IND wood yellow and 1SG
walk.1SG PAST DEF road travel PAST less
and make-different PFTV (TWWSB) everything


S'ǽrt
Quote:

ali ćrin di snaivd

hwin se ćaiz ćrynǽ ail'ese Blos źewhl
ii snaiv wentħ di oldi s'ai ents
ii ga ćrr Snaivaid pyi se teyń
ii soli sśen ćrr lil fǽ vh fw oldi se
laa ri vthaizv s'ail'li'imn-Haioĉ

stelo vini s'ali gl nj presym
ii orn oi al'Ersatz enyuze
winć geflendg m s'ii owi s'm viny'oi
eodm lil ali vin oi rhyśt
imn s'rn m pres yn

ii đor se presym wentħ hch Higlś
hona frnǽ sc di vny'oi bođaint rn
ah, paźi s'ali mbwent ama gcrel Gliśy
eodm winć ali Gven sc all ćrǽimǽ la ćrǽimǽ
siśi sc aas ebmi l

źieri loi jen vn ali'hai
cri Tevainćv ii Tevainćv wgo:
hwn se ćaiz ćrynǽ ail'ese Blos źewhl
vini s'ali ćryn snaivd s'ien
ii bodgennd rn lil fetv


(vowels are basically like Romance languages; c=k, ć=ch, ĉ=j, ś=sh ź=/ʒ/)
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StrangeMagic
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just my little addition. ^_^ In Eleypherion:

Ojahur Suzari

Khonyi ojahurga mocar-orgolarat colgilaz
Oun fica dolen gelep sustrageloz, bol shiz
Oun nilg straga shiz, doriom fulfiz
Oun doop qanz toaj qanz gelep chuanotiz
I-fajoikga-vin-fulbilaz-ounonaren loptilaz

Pr ninga jaboz, fica qanz somailu
Oun jaibas handario nieban candiz
Fica warmia candiz oun avajah fikaliz
Quchura n exomtiir tri
Qualis aviz

Oun dolen n soli qualis gawangiz
Umcorlinganonaren qeet qep hazerilaz
Ya, nilgur as v ramat aranoz
Quchura hajua ihajuagaou doisaburilaz jugoz
Viron lili pontonoz

Ku o xul lanri
Diwalna liamartga oun liamartga dai laia
Khonyi ojahurga mocarona colgilaz, oun na---
Nilg zariz heliet manoz
Oun ne bba anlur hazriz

--------

Ojahur Su-za-ri
Road NEG-to use-PRS-3rd

Khonyi ojahur-ga mocar-orgo-larat colg-ilaz
Oun fica dolen gelep su-stragel-oz, bol sh-iz
Oun nilg straga sh-iz, doriom fulf-iz
Oun doop qanz toaj qanz gelep chuanot-iz
I-fajoik-ga-vin-fulb-ilaz-ou-nonaren lopt-ilaz

Two road-PLU forest-yellow-INE to diverge-PST-3rd-PLU
And because both could NEG-to travel-PST-1st , upset to be-PST-1st
And one traveller to be-PST-1st, long to stand-PSt-1st
And down as far as could to look-PST-1st
To(CIRC)-plant-PLU-small-to grow-PST-3rd-PLU-INE-PLU to bend-PST-3rd


Pr ninga jab-oz, fica qanz somailu
Oun jaibas handario nieb-an cand-iz
Fica warmia cand-iz oun avajah fikal-iz
Quchura n ex-omti-ir tri
Qualis av-iz

Then other to take-PST-1st, because as beautiful
And perhaps claim to be good-COMP to have-PST-3rd
Because grass to have-PST-3rd and erosion to want-PST-3rd
However that to go-GER(INFIX) there
Same to erode-PST-3rd

Oun dolen n soli qualis gawang-iz
Umcorlin-ga-nonaren qeet qep hazer-ilaz
Ya, nilgur as v ramat aran-oz
Quchura hajua i-hajua-ga-ou doisabur-ilaz jug-oz
Viron lil-i ponton-oz

And both that sun same to shine-PST-3rd
Leave-PLU-INE no step black NEG-to make-PSt-3rd-PLU
Oh, first for another day to leave-PST-1st
However path to(CIRC)-path-PLU to lead-PST-3rd-PLU to know-PST-1st
If to return-FUT-1st to doubt-PST-1st

Ku o xul lan-ri
Diwalna liamart-ga oun liamart-ga dai laia
Khonyi ojahur-ga mocar-ona colg-ilaz, oun na---
Nilg zar-iz heliet man-oz
Oun ne bba anlur haz-riz

This with sigh to tell-FUT-1st
Sometime age-PLU and age-PLU from now
Two road-PLU forest-INE to diverge-PST-3rd-PLU, and I---
One to use-PST-3rd less to choose-PST-1st
And that difference big to make-PST-3rd

And here it is in the Eleypherion script. ^_^

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Aert



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YAYY! More translations! Thanks StrangeMagic Very Happy very nice vertscript by the way Very Happy

Here's the new 'lang I'm working on now (described in the conlang section).

ORIGINAL:
Quote:
The Road Not Taken

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.


GLOSS:
Quote:
path NEG walk-ADJ

in forest yellow PAST two road.PL diverge
and (be) sorry that both PAST NEG 1SG.travel.COND
and one traveler be, PAST 1SG.stand long
and PAST 1SG.look.down TWWSB as far as PAST 1SG.able
at where in the under-growth PAST 3SG.N.bend

Then other PAST 1SG.take, equally fair
and claim good.COMPR, perhaps have.GER
because PAST 3SG.N (be)grassy and wear.GER PAST want
however TWWSB walk.GER there
3PL.INAN wear.PFTV equal approximately

and that morning both equally PAST lie
(with)in leaf.PL that NEG PAST walk_on.GER make.PFTV black
ah! for day another first PAST 1SG.keep!
However know.GER how path.tend path.ALL
that FUT 1SG.return.EMPH PAST 1SG.doubt

sigh.COM this FUT 1SG.tell.GER
Somewhere time.PL and time.PL later
in forest yellow PAST two road.PL diverge, and 1SG-
one travel.ADJ less PAST 1SG.walk
and everything TWWSB PAST change.PFTV


lr
Quote:
Ćrm ci vind

cin Blos źeol s Ćaiz Ćrmn wn
i'ens syc wenđ s c'snveś
ii rr snvd ga, s py teń
ii s solf lil d vh s old
lo ry cin'imn-Hoğ s yevt

telo gl s vin, perism eny
ii Ersat enyoź, yiђn orn
wnć s yelndg ii vin s owi
eodm lil vin rhśt
mnar pers yn

ic Igalś wenđ persm s đor
cin Fr sy'ci's viny bor đnt
ah! br Gliśỳ crel bwent s pź
eodm fn ln Ćrmal Ćrmovỳ
syc s ebmaas s sś

him ğen el źr
cri Tevnn ii Tevnn wigo
cin Blos źeol s Ćaiz Ćrmn wn, ii o -
rr snvd n s vin
ii fetv lil 'śror
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achemel



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

StrangeMagic, your writing is so pretty!!!!! *jealous* Some of the hooks on the ends of words, like in the first line on the right, make me think of Chinese. Do you ever write it with a brush? I bet that would be fantabulous. Wink
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I would like to learn:
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StrangeMagic
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Aert, I read somewhere that you were making a collection of this poem, so I decided to add mine in as well. And oh yeah, I will try and do a Chinese translation of it very soon. ^_^

But thank you very much, both Aert and Achemel.

And that sounds like a really cool idea, I might try writing it with a brush very soon. =D LOL
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achemel



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool cool! Very Happy If you do, definitely show us! I think I'll give this poem a shot too, and Jabberwocky because I love it so. Razz
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StrangeMagic
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edit: I wrote 較交 when it should have been 比較

Here it is in Traditional Chinese:

少人行的路

在黄色森林裹, 一條路分成兩條
我真傷心, 不能行兩條路
我只是一個旅遊客, 所以站了很久
遠遠望去, 望到最遠
望到路在草中彎的地點

選了另一條, 一樣美
還可能有比較好的要求
因為有很多草, 又需要糜爛
但是這個行程
糜爛都是一樣

太陽一樣照着兩條路
在樹葉中, 沒有退後的腳印
呀, 我留另一條路其他日行
但是我知道一條路搭另外一條路
我沒想到我真的會回去

所以我就感嘆地
在很久很久的時候說:
在森林裹, 一條路分成兩條, 我就
我就選了少人行的路
所以就有這麽多變化

And in Simplified Chinese:

少人行的路

在黄色森林裹, 一条路分成两条
我真伤心, 不能行两条路
我只是一个旅游客, 所以站了很久
远远望去, 望到最远
望到路在草中弯的地点

选了另一条, 一样美
还可能有比较好的要求
因为有很多草, 又需要糜烂
但是这个行程
糜烂都是一样

太阳一样照著两条路
在树叶中, 没有退後的脚印
呀, 我留另一条路其他日行
但是我知道一条路搭另外一条路
我没想到我真的会回去

所以我就感叹地
在很久很久的时候说:
在森林裹, 一条路分成两条, 我就
我就选了少人行的路
所以就有这么多变化

----------

少 人 行-的 路
Few people walk-posessive road

在 黄色 森林-裹, 一 條 路 分成 兩 條
In yellow-coloured forest-in, one (counter for long things) road split two (counter for long things)
我 真 傷心, 不能 行 兩 條 路
I very upset, cannot walk two (counter) road
我 只 是 一 個 旅遊客, 所以 站-了 很 久
I only am one (counter for most general nouns) traveller, so stand-past particle very long
遠 遠 望-去, 望 到 最 遠
Far far look-towards, look to most far
望 到 路 在 草-中 彎-的 地點
Look to road in grass-in bend-possesive place


選-了 另 一 條, 一樣 美
Choose-past particle other one (counter), same beauty
還 可能 有 比較 好-的 要求
Also perhaps have compartively good-possesive requirement
因為 有 很 多 草, 又 需要 糜爛
Because have very lot grass, also need erosion
但是 這 個 行程
But this (counter) journey
糜爛 都 是 一樣
Erosion even is same

太陽 一樣 照-着 兩 條 路
Sun same shine-(action) two (counter) road
在 樹葉-中, 沒有 退後的 腳印
In leaves-in, does-not-have going-back-possesive footprint
呀, 我 留 另 一 條 路 其他 日 行
Interjection, I leave other one (counter) road other day walk
但是 我 知道 一 條 路 搭 另外 一 條 路
But I know one (counter) road links another one (counter) road
我 沒想到 我 真的 會 回去
I did not think I really future particle return

所以 我 就 感嘆-地
So I therefore sighing-adverbial suffix
在 很久 很久的 時候 說:
In very long very long-in time say:
在 森林-裹, 一 條 路 分成 兩 條, 我 就
In forest-in, one (counter) road split two (counter), I thereofre
我 就 選-了 少 人 行-的 路
I therefore choose-past particle few people walk-possesive road
所以 就 有 這麽 多 變化
So therefore exists this much change


Last edited by StrangeMagic on Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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Aert



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow thanks! Unfortunately I'm at my dad's house which means no language packs or support (which is confusing because he uses (ugh/shiver vista Evil or Very Mad ), and a bunch of other stuff... I'll have to save it when I get back.

Just a few questions: vebs can take cases? How does this work?

Yay! I recognized some of the characters (by which I mean I saw 'man' :S)
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achemel



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't wait for classes to start so I can better understand this. (^_^) I know a number of the characters already, though, and vaguely the uses of 的 and 了... but not really.
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I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
Italian, Norwegian, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah
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StrangeMagic
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Posts: 640

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aert wrote:
Wow thanks! Unfortunately I'm at my dad's house which means no language packs or support (which is confusing because he uses (ugh/shiver vista Evil or Very Mad ), and a bunch of other stuff... I'll have to save it when I get back.

Just a few questions: vebs can take cases? How does this work?

Yay! I recognized some of the characters (by which I mean I saw 'man' :S)


Do you mean this bit: "Look to road in grass-in bend-possesive place"? Hmmm, the possesive there is more like "of". So it's "Look to road in grass-in bend-of place".... I have no idea how to explain it. o_O

望 - look
到 - to
路 - road
在 - in
草 - grass
中 - middle
彎 - bend
的 - of/possesive
地 - ground
點 - point

Quote:
I can't wait for classes to start so I can better understand this. (^_^) I know a number of the characters already, though, and vaguely the uses of 的 and 了... but not really.


Aww, when do you start it? And haha, the "de" and "le" are some of the most confusing bits of Chinese.
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achemel



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Posts: 556
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Classes start Aug. 31st, but technically I won't learn anything language-related until... Sept. 2nd, I think that's Wednesday... yes. You do actual language-learning in recitation classes because they're intensive courses (for Japanese and Chinese anyway, and I think the beginner classes for other languages) so although the first day is a recitation, you don't actually learn anything until after the first lecture. That sentence seems kind of repetitive but I can't think of another way to say it right now. Razz
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I would like to learn:
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Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah
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