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Emitare reduxed

 
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 8:50 pm    Post subject: Emitare reduxed Reply with quote

I've been reading some books on historical linguistics, so I've revisited some of the stuff I had been working on and made it a lot more realistic.
I took some of the old Kilhiryui stuff I have on here, and moved that back to a proto-language level and renamed it Proto-Kilhiri-Manyaryuyei. I've then taken that and descended a nice little language off of it, Emitare. Here are some of the things I've done.

Total loss of all final consonants otherwise, creating things like iri/irilhe (light, stative), and ehu/ehuk (eat, negative). Included in this is nasalization, then a shift of nasalized vowels (think in > i~ > e), which has created some interesting ablaut systems in basic cases. For example, PKM has active sire (water), stative siren, while Emitare has sjire/sjira (<sj> = /C/).
Adding r > i / _# (final /4/ to /i/) and then subsequent monophthongization has created even more ablaut: PKM sire/sirer (copulization), Emitare sjire/sjiri.

I've added a consonant dissimilation system (thanks to eldin for the idea), such that no two consonants in a row can have both the same place and manner of articulation. Thus, water-UNIVERSAL is sjirelj (sjire-lj) while light-UNIVERSAL is irilhuz (irilh-ulj).

I've been pretty conservative in the grammar, I've retained most of the basic cases and moods without introducing much periphrasis. All the voices except active and adjutative became periphrastic due to phonological change, though.
I've retained the total lack of true pronouns also.

Here are some difference examples:
The moon shines above the world.
PKM: Essal essalhin euyamagi. /es:al es:aKin eMjamaNi/ shine moon-STAT world-SPATIA-SUPERESSIVE
Emi: Eso esalhe yae agemai. /eso esaKe 2jae agemai/ shine moon.STAT world-GEN.ADJ up-SPATIALLOC (yup, there's some periphrasis)

I want you to go. (more periphrasis)
PKM: Yattaun main eur. /jat:aun main eu4/ go-VOL you-STAT me-AGENT
Emi: Ev yate ma. /evy 2 jate ma/ want me.STAT go-INF you.STAT

This man is not good enough to do that.
PKM: Elayui aulunirei yatiwaki yenirei. good-not.enough man-STAT-DEM do-NOM-BEN action-STAT-DEM
Emi: Elaya olura yatjiai era. good-enough-NEG man-DEM.STAT do-NOM-BEN action-DEM.STAT

So, what do you guys think?
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mrtoast2



Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 123
Location: Goromonzi

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love it! That's a million times better than I could do to replicate realism in linguistics.
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks ^_^

I'm doing my best to be realistic since this is for a planned conworld on the scale of Zompist's Almea. This is the first in a series I'm going to do descended from what is now PKM. It's going to take a LoT of effort. Razz
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achemel



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 556
Location: up for debate

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oooo, this is so cool!!! Very Happy They really look related but still distinct. I've attempted similar things with some of my languages but nothing quite so involved and, allow me to say, awesomely nifty. (^_^) What made you decide on the particular changes you made to develop Emitare?
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I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
Italian, Norwegian, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again. ^_^ I just picked changes based on if the language coming out of them sounded the way I wanted it to. It's amazing how you can use the right combination of totally plausible sound changes and get whatever you want out of them.

It's also amazing how those sound changes can make the grammar do things you really never expected it to. It's taken on a bit more of a life of its own than I was expecting.
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achemel



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 556
Location: up for debate

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ooooh, I see! I've been reworking my first language for the past couple of weeks because I thought maybe I could improve it, and I've discovered that even 6 years ago when I had almost no linguistic knowledge somehow this language had morphemic units and some phonological rules I've only just learned to identify. (^_^) As I've gone along I've found that my revisions include a lot of metathesis and various deletions. I guess that as you've worked on Emitare you've found processes that just work, like final-consonant deletion and such? Do you have exceptions to your rules, or is everything pretty much set?
_________________
I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
Italian, Norwegian, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Final-consonant deletion was one of the defining transformations to make Emitare (Kilhiryui has several word-final consonants, but I wanted a strict CV lang), IDK about the rest. I started Kilhiryui after I had accumulated a fairly large amount of knowledge, and I abandoned my last conlang because of that, so I haven't had many revisions. The sound-change rules are mostly set-in-stone, my policy on grammar is 'if it's still distinct after sound changes, keep it, otherwise, find some other way'.

Examples of what I'm talking about are more like these: for example, Kilhiryui has suffixes to mark number instead of number-adjectives, but due to sound changes later stages of Emitare are going to have to have number-adjectives of some kind. Also, due to sound changes eradicating the distinctness of most voices, I've had to make them periphrastic, which has removed the usefulness of Kilhiryui's agentive case, which I originally had no intention of getting rid of.

Interesting about your original lang still having a bunch of that kind of stuff. Kinda says something about the human brain, doesn't it?
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achemel



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 556
Location: up for debate

PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah. Smile That's just so cool I think, how even though it's constructed it ends up going its own way like a natural language. (^_^)
_________________
I have some small knowledge of:
English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Spanish, French
I would like to learn:
Italian, Norwegian, Gaelic
Main conlangs:
ddamachel, tadvaradcel, ra cel, lashel, hemnalg, nomah
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