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Changes in Your Conlang
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StrangeMagic
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:30 am    Post subject: Changes in Your Conlang Reply with quote

I have recently been looking through some of my old samples of Eleypherion (Yepheriun) and decided to tell you a little bit about how I have change and adapted the language. And I am intrigued to hear how yours has developed (ie, the major changes)

Originally, it was a SVO language and there were many consonant clusters (mainly two), I don't think there were any clusters of 3. There were clusters such as "qwanze" which then became "qanz". Furthermore, there was no distinction between /e/ and /E/. Furthermore, I used to include both the definite and indefinite articles - "the" and "a" - "il" and "bu".

There was originally only one "we" but then it split into the exclusive we and the inclusive we forms of the verbs. Words which were too long such as "there" - "triblock" was shortened to "tri".

It has then changed to become a SOV language with much fewer consonant clusters - the most common one is "ng" which by itself means "soon". The other consonant clusters are ones which have been aspirated.

Code:
Bh
Dh
Gh
Kh
Ph
Zh


There are also other ones which are with laterals and approximants:

Code:
Gr
Qr
Cl
Fr
Fl
Pr
Sl
Tr
Tw


However, "ch" and "sh" are both pronounced /S/. "Tz/Tjz" is pronounced as /dZ/ and "th" is pronounced /T/.

/E/ is now romanized as "e" whereas /e/ is romanized as "".

And finally, the definite and indefinite particles became unnecessary if the meaning of the sentence was clear.

Below is the UDHR in the New and Old versions of Yepheriun.

1. Laia, mukula nularmas bocantqua nilg oun towekga qualis candiz.
2. Oun dai mingu qanz saramga moochiwiz, duga Shinarmukanonar napilaz oun tri guchilaz.
3. Oun inivou tombokilaz, Climy, bokosga hazrom nageel gelutom, oun geegeel guzudpom supinkuuk. Oun bokos as bok, oun tes as cofka candilaz.
4. Pr tombokilaz, Climye cookid oun chachunga o zhmart stram aniugona pararakerom naga nageel gelutom, oun siqu as naga hazerom nageel gelutom, cast manico-desi-mukula-nularmasfan sanfar shom.
5. Oun Hopluni cookid oun chachunga cliwiz doop balupir, durod nasaga desi namsar pararakeriyoyol.
6. Oun Hopluni tombokiz, Balubimy, nilg saramga shilaz, oun bo nilg bocantqua candilaz, oun ku stegun desi i lengyo shiz paset. Oun pundugeli salahyo lengar as geegeel suchocho shil.
7. Climy, cliwi doop nageel gelutom oun tri geemart bocantqua dizolm, vala nivmart lankau subucajundo.
8. Vala Hopluni dai tri manico-desi-mukula-nularmasfan geegeel sanfiz, oun cookid pararakilbat aranilaz.
9. Ilnaka zhmart siqu Babel juriol, fica Hopluni tri bocantqua desi mukula nularmas diziz. Oun dai tri Hopluni manico-desi-mukula-nularmasfan geegeel sanfiz.

(OLD VERSION)

1. Laeia il hularmas mukula candiz nilg bocantequa oun il qualis towekga.
2. Oun qwanze saramga moochiilaz dai il mingu, napilaz bu duga dalee il muka desi Shinar oun guchilaz triblock.
3. Oun tombokilaz pon nilg wajozaj, "Climeye, glutmea naegeel hazeom bokosga, oun guzudpom geegeel spinkuuk." Oun candilaz bokos chais bok, oun tees chais cofka.
4. Preced tombokilaz, "Climeye, glutmea naegeel pararkeom naegae bu cookid oun bu chachunga zik zheart stram dalee il aeniugga, oun glutmea naegeel hazeom bu sique chais naegae, cast naega sanfareb lara il manico desi il nularmas mukula."
5. Oun il Hopluni climiz doop blupir il cookid oun il chachunga, durod il nasaga desi lamsarga candil pararkeiyoyol.
6. Oun il Hopluni tombokiz, "Blubgimeye, shil nilg saramga, oun candil bo nilg bocanequa, oun ku shi paset il stegun desi which exil lengar. Oun pundugli ne salahil lengar kun laeia ungchungeb chais geegeel.
7. Climeye, glutmea naegeel exom doop oun triblock umbuyuom geegaart bocantequa, vala ne geega telonik su'buecom nilg wajozajart lankau."
8. Vala il Hopluni sanfiz geegeel dai triblock lara il manico desi il mukula, oun aranilaz charan pararkeilbat il cookid.
9. Itnaka zheart sique juriz Babel, ficatio triblock il Hopluni umbuyuiz il bocantequa desi bo il mukula. Oun dai triblock il Hopluni sanfiz geegeel lara il manico desi bo il mukula.

Other things that I will talk about later is the changes in script that they used and maybe more things about the language - when I have time.
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm thinking of adding a /@/ to Adpihi.
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killerken



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In its very earliest form, Fỉaas as pretty much a cypher for English. The only difference was the way tense was indicated.

Old: Ỉlỏr frnỏr lảraa trỉs. The(p) trees were green.
New: Fornỏro trỉsaar laarvỉ faa. Trees(S) green to-be past-indicator.

I've also simplified the way it is written and reduced the number of vowels. I used to specify which way out of three each vowel was pronounced. After I discovered that I only used roughly one pronunciation for each vowel, I eliminated the unused sounds. I also found articles to be unnecessary. Rather than relying on word order to communicate meaning, I use cases for most thematic relations.
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langover94



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to make some changes to my current conlang.

Except, I find it daunting to rewrite all of the rules.
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Hemicomputer



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@langover: I suggest maybe changing it over one piece at a time, starting with what bothers you most. That's somewhat how Holxws has evolved.

@killerken: I see that you're learning Polish now! Hope that's going well.

As to the main topic, Holxws has changed immensely, especially in the Romanization and Phonology. In the old version, it was spelled Gholkhux and Romanization was pretty much ad hoc. Also, the grammar was quite different as tense was attached to the verb with a suffix and the dominant word order was something closer to SVO. Previously, at various stages, it has contained the phonemes /q x G r p b l_0/, all of which have been removed by now.


Last edited by Hemicomputer on Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:15 pm; edited 2 times in total
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killerken



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hemicomputer: Yes: I may be staying there for a week or two over the summer with a friend, so I figured I should try and understand a bit of what's going on. I checked out the first Pimsleur set from the library. The only thing I don't like is that it is all audio. I wish I could see the words I have learned so far, but I have no idea how to spell them. Polish has an interesting orthography as far as writing the phonemes go. Maybe just because I'm used to Western European languages.
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Aeetlrcreejl



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kravat is a fairly new language, but already it has had some changes:

The nominative plural of the noun used to be formed by mutating the last vowel e.g. dagauvea, but now it is formed by mutating the initial vowel e.g. deagauva.
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kyonides



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, several loan words have been replaced, e.g.

Computer - Kompusere - Kurvesere - Kurshesde / Hareushe

Ware:
Hardware - Gauwera - Gauskirde
Software - Fiovowera - Fiovoskirde / Fiovskirde

In the first example I made the verb to see "vedei / vei" mutate into "shei", something similar happened to to be "sei", which mutated into "thei".
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Serali
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SM: If it wouldn't kill you could you write that in the script please?

I love the script to death.

As for me I'm in the process of making seperate characters for the many consonant clusters in Klli. If my scanner was hooked up I'd show you.

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StrangeMagic
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Serali wrote:
SM: If it wouldn't kill you could you write that in the script please?

I love the script to death.

As for me I'm in the process of making seperate characters for the many consonant clusters in Klli. If my scanner was hooked up I'd show you.

Boingies



I have a feeling that I might have already written something in it. But I will check. ^^

In fact, if I'm being lazy, go here: http://conscripts.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=534

There's a sample there, I believe you have not seen. ^_^
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Serali
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EEEEEEEEEEEEE!

So pretty! And no I haven't seen that one.

I'm in love with this script.


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Aert



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recently, I've been going through a spelling reform in how the pronounced letters should look in their Romanized form.

Words where there's the extra-short u (ie sir, rubble, etc, I've dropped the letter expressing that u, for aesthetics and succinctness etc. The only time it's retained are words like Earth where it wouldn't make any sense without it.

Also, aspiration can now be written as -h-, which can also indicate stress in a word. This gives the Romanization kind of an Irish feel to it.

I used to have vowels for aow, owh, (aoʊ, oʊ, in IPA I think) and oa (I don't know how to write this in IPA, but it's a short owh, like 'or,' 'sort,' etc - the owh before the w sets in. Also, oy ('boy') may be replaced with eu (it's right now, but it doesn't feel right sometimes).

Now I have more in the way of vowel clusters, not so much for dipthongs/tripthongs etc (though they exist and may soon flourish Wink) but for aesthetics and a smaller vowel listing.

Vowels:
a ă e i o /eu u oa ow au
/ ɑː(r without the r) eI ɛ i aI ɒ uː ɔɪ (ɝ without the r) ʌ ʊ ? oʊ aoʊ/

Consonants:
b c ć d f g h ħ j ĵ l m n ń p r ŕ s ś t θ v w y z
/b k tʃ d f g h x? dʒ ʒ l m n ŋ p r rr? s ʃ t θ v w y z/
-> ħ = x = soft/North German ch (not often found)
-> rr = trilled r (not often found)
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Tolkien_Freak



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aert wrote:
Words where there's the extra-short u (ie sir, rubble, etc, I've dropped the letter expressing that u, for aesthetics and succinctness etc. The only time it's retained are words like Earth where it wouldn't make any sense without it.


I believe those are actually syllabic consonants: /sr\_=/, /r\@bl_=/, /r\_=T\. (Correct my X-SAMPA if I'm wrong, the Wikipedia page won't load.)
Nobody realizes English has syllabic consonants, but it does.

Quote:
Also, aspiration can now be written as -h-, which can also indicate stress in a word.

That's unique - I'd like to see an example of that.
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Aert



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that -h- as aspiration is also used by Greek and Turkish (maybe Hungarian.

As for the extra short u, I don't know X-SAMPA, and I don't even know how to correctly write the sound I'm referring to. In sir, I would guess it's an r-coloured vowel, but I don't know what it would be called for rubble.
I made a phonetic alphabet for myself because I think the IPA is too complicated and specialized for what I want. So instead of having to attach the u-sound to a consonant, it can be anywhere, and easily written.
Examples: Earth = r; sir = sr; rubble = rubl etc. The sound is so short I initially didn't want to use a letter, but otherwise couldn't indicate it's location, etc.
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Tolkien_Freak



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aert wrote:
I think that -h- as aspiration is also used by Greek and Turkish (maybe Hungarian).

But using it for stress is something I've never heard of.

Quote:
As for the extra short u...


In non-X-SAMPA terms, what I'm saying is that 'sir' is really just 'sr', with the 'r' acting as the vowel. ('Rubble' is more of r@bl (can't type English's 'uh' sound without something), the 'l' acts as the vowel in the last syllable, and 'earth' is just 'rth').
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Hemicomputer



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tolkien_Freak wrote:

I believe those are actually syllabic consonants: /sr\_=/, /r\@bl_=/, /r\_=T\. (Correct my X-SAMPA if I'm wrong, the Wikipedia page won't load.)

I would gloss Earth as /?r\=T/, with a glottal glop at the beginning, but that might be a dialectal difference. Speaking of dialects, I believe that British pronunciation often uses r-colored vowels when American English has a syllabic r. That might be why we differ with Aert on some (if he lives in Europe, I have no idea where he actually is.)
Tolkien_Freak wrote:
Nobody realizes English has syllabic consonants, but it does.
I've had long arguments with my cousin about whether "turn" has a vowel in it. Laughing I'm such a geek.
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm thinking of having 6 vowels in Adpihi (instead of 5) and 9 vowels in Reptigan (instead of 18 or 27 or 36).

Also;

I simplified their switch-reference system, as posted elsewhere on this(?) board.
Now there are two markers with five values each:

* "Same Subject Marker" has the following values;
** Marked S or A = Referenced S or A
** Marked S or A = Referenced U or E
** Marked S or A < or > Referenced S or A
** Marked S or A < or > Referenced U or E
** None of the above.

* "Same Object Marker" has the following values;
** Marked S or U = Referenced S or U
** Marked S or U = Referenced A or E
** Marked S or U < or > Referenced S or U
** Marked S or U < or > Referenced A or E
** None of the above.
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Tolkien_Freak



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hemicomputer wrote:
Speaking of dialects, I believe that British pronunciation often uses r-colored vowels when American English has a syllabic r. That might be why we differ with Aert on some (if he lives in Europe, I have no idea where he actually is.)

Whoops, yeah, that's true.

Quote:
Tolkien_Freak wrote:
Nobody realizes English has syllabic consonants, but it does.
I've had long arguments with my cousin about whether "turn" has a vowel in it. Laughing I'm such a geek.

I've done that a little with my parents, but I don't do it often or for long.
*Geekness is awesome!*

eldin raigmore wrote:
(instead of 18 or 27 or 36).

O_o
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Aert



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the spelling reform continues Confused

Major differences:
->
-> can be either or eu (?)
->
ow -> ẃ
au -> ao
and θ merged to

Oh, and I found the IPA for ă : e\

u cwic braon foks jumps ẃvr u lz dog.
S să hablandẃ en espanyoal mćẃ, să lẃ aprendă mas rapdẃ.
ăr iz trafic on r sd uv u rẃd.
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mrtoast2



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I started out (with the gwakkian script), Gwkn was pretty much just a cipher. But being inspired by the things that I saw on here, it started to evolve into a more independent language. The only major changes that I have made have been to the script and the romanization, though those changes have necessitated changes to the language as well.

As for prospective changes, the top of my list is definitely to change how the preterite is indicated (currently it uses an auxiliary verb, something that I am trying to phase out).
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