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Vreleksá The Alurhsa Word for Constructed: Creativity in both scripts and languages
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eldin raigmore Admin

Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 1621 Location: SouthEast Michigan
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject: TC: My Fine Hen |
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(Decide whether "higgledy-piggledy" is nonsense or a proper name; decide whether and how to translate it into your conlang so it fits.)
Higgledy-Piggledy, my fine hen:
She lays eggs for gentlemen.
Gentlemen come, every day,
To see what eggs my hen doth lay.
Sometimes nine, and sometimes ten:
Higgledy-Piggledy, my fine hen. _________________ "We're the healthiest horse in the glue factory" - Erskine Bowles, Co-Chairman of the deficit reduction commission |
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dusepo

Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 129
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Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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Hēgeladē'pēgeladē, ngō'kēpenōha sa shān,
Sa'grebores rōnaq ta gōladotaq.
Gōldotaq gans, āthanatēm tak,
O leles qach rōnaq ngō'kēpenōha haps gebores.
Norā ngē, o norā fē,
Hēgeladē'pēgeladē, ngō'kēpenōha sa shān.
Higgeldy piggeldy (Heegeladee Peegeladee), my hen who (feminine) is fine,
She gives birth to eggs for men.
Men come, every day,
And see what eggs my hen has given birth to.
Sometimes nine, sometimes ten,
Higgeldy piggeldy (Heegeladee Peegeladee), my hen who (feminine) is fine.
_________________ My Website
Last edited by dusepo on Wed May 07, 2008 6:16 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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StrangeMagic Admin

Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 640
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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Higaldi-Pigaldi, naémart hanka ni:
Éinpal as unaga ouvi.
Anaga cliwil, stinamat,
I éinpal naémart hanka lengi ouvar balupir.
Diwa ect, oun diwa aram:
Higaldi-Pigaldi, naémart hanki ni.
Higgledy-Piggledy, my hen fine:
Eggs for gentlemen to lay-3-PRE.
Gentlemen to come-3-PLU-PRES, every day,
What eggs my hen to do-3-PRE to lay to see.
Sometimes nine, and sometimes ten:
Higgledy-Piggledy, me hen fine. |
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eldin raigmore Admin

Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 1621 Location: SouthEast Michigan
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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@Dusepo,
@StrangeMagic;
I very much like your contributions! Thanks. _________________ "We're the healthiest horse in the glue factory" - Erskine Bowles, Co-Chairman of the deficit reduction commission |
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mrtoast2

Joined: 19 Feb 2008 Posts: 123 Location: Goromonzi
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Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 3:17 am Post subject: |
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Hílgúldee Pígúldee, télvón glôtékain hékaintah,
Vén álénteegán blórtkôn édélg pénkrôtén kán drénén dér seent.
Pénkrôtén kán drénén dér seent zhénvahnhátah, dénén hétlahktón bóf tôdónkrá,
Lénkánkah lénén blórtkôn kán télvón glôtékain álsénteegan.
Bóf bílbahchtár nôbrán, rólt bóf bílbahchtár dínah,
Hígáldí Pígáldí, télvón glôtékain hékaintah.
Higgledy piggledy, my hen fine
She lays eggs for men who are of niceness.
Men who are of niceness come, the days of all,
To see the eggs that my hen lays.
With occasion nine, and with occasion ten,
Higgledy piggledy, my hen fine. _________________ Tôśt drônén kókślán! Vón kríngénã Tôśt! Gâgén šníkél dér îwâ!
Last edited by mrtoast2 on Sun May 18, 2008 1:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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imbecilica
Joined: 09 Jan 2008 Posts: 74
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Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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Higgledy-Piggledy, my fine hen:
She lays eggs for gentlemen.
Gentlemen come, every day,
To see what eggs my hen doth lay.
Sometimes nine, and sometimes ten:
Higgledy-Piggledy, my fine hen.
Qintari
Higúdi pigúdi, o-ra gae-mýu dotsu-mon
Jiego detsuji jangho jyo misuteru
Misuteru laiji, moida tenn
Kinji jangho nakei o-ra gae-mýu deji-dá
Asu-naesu gyo, itte osu-naesu kyan-dé
Higúdi Pigúdi, o-ra gae dotsu-mon! |
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eldin raigmore Admin

Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 1621 Location: SouthEast Michigan
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Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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@MrToast2 and @Imbecilica; Thank you.
@MrToast2; thanks for the morphemic gloss, as well.
@Imbecilica; can you give us a morphemic gloss? _________________ "We're the healthiest horse in the glue factory" - Erskine Bowles, Co-Chairman of the deficit reduction commission |
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imbecilica
Joined: 09 Jan 2008 Posts: 74
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 3:13 am Post subject: |
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eldin raigmore wrote: | @MrToast2 and @Imbecilica; Thank you.
@MrToast2; thanks for the morphemic gloss, as well.
@Imbecilica; can you give us a morphemic gloss? |
Sure...
Qintari
Higúdi pigúdi, o-ra gae-mýu dotsu-mon
Jiego detsuji jangho jyo misuteru
Higgledy-piggledy (phonetic), my chicken-female good(nice)-adj.
She gives birth eggs for sirs(misters/gentlemen - phonetic)
Misuteru laiji, moida tenn
Kinji jangho nakei o-ra gae-mýu deji-dá
Sirs(phonetic) come, each day
To see eggs which my chicken-female laid
Asu-naesu gyo, itte osu-naesu kyan-dé
Higúdi Pigúdi, o-ra gae dotsu-mon
At times nine, and other times ten of them
Higgle-piggledy(phonetic), my chicken-female good(nice)-adj. |
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Hemicomputer
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 610 Location: Calgary, Alberta
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 3:57 am Post subject: |
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Holxûs:
Çikulti-Vikulti, kleven helm tol:
Îmarev nwkún mokv senlws kra.
Mokv senlws swl,
Gí omyutwr îmarv kúci kra.
Ríl kadu, al ríl rox:
Çikulti-Vikulti, kleven helm tanci.
Translation:
Higgledy-Piggledy, my good hen:
She makes eggs for respected men.
Respected men come,
For the seeing of her eggs.
Sometimes 9, and sometimes 10:
Higgledy-Piggledy, my good hen.
Gloss:
higgledy-piggledy, hen good 1-POSS
egg-PL make-3 man-PL respected for
man-PL respected PRES.CONST come
the see-OBJ egg-PL 3-POSS for
sometimes nine, and sometimes ten
higgledy-piggledy, hen good 1-POSS
EDIT: Did the gloss properly and made some changes to the translation of line 4. Rúicin kól, elden!
Last edited by Hemicomputer on Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:10 pm; edited 11 times in total |
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eldin raigmore Admin

Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 1621 Location: SouthEast Michigan
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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Hemicomputer wrote: | I don't really know how to gloss, just guessing based on the other glosses I've seen. | Look up "morphemic gloss", "interlinear morphemic translation", "Leipzig glossing rules", and/or "Christian Lehemann". _________________ "We're the healthiest horse in the glue factory" - Erskine Bowles, Co-Chairman of the deficit reduction commission |
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mrtoast2

Joined: 19 Feb 2008 Posts: 123 Location: Goromonzi
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Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 1:08 am Post subject: |
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Edited my original translation, higgledy-piggledy should actually translate to:
Hílgúldee Pílgúldee
Not:
Hílgáldí Pígáldí
Just had a momentary brain lapse with the phonetics. _________________ Tôśt drônén kókślán! Vón kríngénã Tôśt! Gâgén šníkél dér îwâ! |
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Hemicomputer
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 610 Location: Calgary, Alberta
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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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Sun:
EDIT: Some phonological/grammatical/orthographic changes made.
Higaldi-Pigaldi, les joşna vojz,
Sa opatetka gast someltnol,
Somelt lad, völkajn,
Zana dol şa opatetka an sa gasthig voşt zot.
It völ kjo, it völ şen,
Higaldi-Pigaldi, les joşna vojz
Higgledy-Piggledy, good hen I-gen.al
she.sg egg-pl-acc make gentleman-pc-ben
gentleman-pauc come, day-dist.temp,
because they.M.pc def.F egg-pl-acc which she make-PAST see want
one day nine, one day ten
Higgledy-Piggledy, good hen I-gen.al
Last edited by Hemicomputer on Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:16 am; edited 11 times in total |
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Tolkien_Freak

Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 1231 Location: in front of my computer. always.
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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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Let's see if I can do this with Kilhiryui:
Higali-migaliye, kararyu elayei euruyei:
Hyarawat ryu kararakun auluwaki.
Euyat aulu, yirilhudhyeunakau,
Hiyawiwaki karakun hyarawatei kararyu.
Yirilhikkainakau kararakunyaun, yirilhikkainakau kararakutain:
Higali-migaliye, kararyu elayei euruyei.
/hiNali miNalije ka4a4jM elajei eM4Mjei
hja4aM\at 4jM ka4a4akMn aMlMM\aki
eMjat aMlM ji4iKMDj2nakaM
hijaM\iM\aki ka4akMn hja4aM\atei ka4a4jM
ji4iKikxainakaM ka4a4akMnjaMn ji4iKikxainakaM ka4a4akMtain
hiNali miNaliye ka4a4jM elajei eM4Mjei/
higgledy-piggledy-VOC, hen good-PTCP me-POSS-PTCP
live-HAB animal.PN[ACT] egg-STAT man-BEN
come man[ACT] sun-UNIV-TIME-LOC
see-GER-BEN egg-STAT live-HAB-PTCP hen[ACT]
sun-PAU-TIME-LOC egg-nine sun-PAU-TIME-LOC egg-ten
higgledy-piggledy-VOC, hen good-PTCP me-POSS-PTCP
I used the verb for 'to live' for 'to lay [eggs]', since 'to live' with an active subject can mean 'to give birth' or 'to cause to have life'. Also, the words for 'sun' and 'day' are the same. |
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eldin raigmore Admin

Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 1621 Location: SouthEast Michigan
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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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These are good, Hemicomputer and Tolkien_Freak!
Thanks!
Can you pronounce them?
Can you write them in your conscripts? _________________ "We're the healthiest horse in the glue factory" - Erskine Bowles, Co-Chairman of the deficit reduction commission |
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Tolkien_Freak

Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 1231 Location: in front of my computer. always.
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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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You're welcome, I need to do more stuff like this with Kilhiryui.
Quote: | Can you pronounce them? |
Do you mean am I able to pronounce them at all, or do you mean am I able to pronounce them into a microphone that is attached to my computer?
Quote: | Can you write them in your conscripts? |
*needs to work on conscript* |
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Hemicomputer
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 610 Location: Calgary, Alberta
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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:25 am Post subject: |
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eldin raigmore wrote: | These are good, Hemicomputer and Tolkien_Freak!
Thanks! |
Thank you!
eldin raigmore wrote: | Can you pronounce them? |
Yes, but I con't provide recordings right now.
eldin raigmore wrote: | Can you write them in your conscripts? |
I'm thinking I might not make a script other than Latin for Sum. If I do, I'll write this up. I'll try to get the Holxûs translation written now that I have the script settled. _________________ Bakram uso, mi abila, / del us bakrat, dahud bakrita! |
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Hemicomputer
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 610 Location: Calgary, Alberta
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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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(this post is no longer relevant due to editing.) _________________ Bakram uso, mi abila, / del us bakrat, dahud bakrita!
Last edited by Hemicomputer on Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:15 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Neqitan
Joined: 24 Sep 2008 Posts: 27
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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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Hemicomputer wrote: | Quote: | ...gentleman-pauc-ANTIABL... |
ANTIABL is the anti-ablative case. Again, I don't know whether this is the proper abbreviation (or even if this is a real case.) Basically, where the ablative case means motion away, anti-ablative means motion towards. So, this word would translate literally as "to gentlemen," better put as "for gentlemen." |
That's called allative case dude. ...It reminds me the Finnish list of locative-like cases, which is just awesome. |
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eldin raigmore Admin

Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 1621 Location: SouthEast Michigan
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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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Tolkien_Freak wrote: | Do you mean am I able to pronounce them at all, | That's sort of what I meant; but Tolkien_Freak wrote: | or do you mean am I able to pronounce them into a microphone that is attached to my computer? | is a more interesting question in the long term. Would you care to answer both?
Hemicomputer wrote: | I wrote: | ...hen good I-poss.al... | The poss.al stands for aliable possession. I don't know if this is the proper abbreviation, I just guessed. | ("Alienable"). If I remember correctly no "standard" abbreviation was given for this; if that's right your guess is as agood as anyone's.
Hemicomputer wrote: | I wrote: | ...gentleman-pauc-ANTIABL... | ANTIABL is the anti-ablative case. Again, I don't know whether this is the proper abbreviation (or even if this is a real case.) Basically, where the ablative case means motion away, anti-ablative means motion towards. So, this word would translate literally as "to gentlemen," better put as "for gentlemen." | "to" for "motion toward" is generally called "allative". For lots of languages the same case is used both for allative and for dative; for others the biggest difference is allative is used for inanimate goals while dative is used for human goals.
"For" is usually translated with a language's benefactive case (if it has one); that case is used for beneficiaries.
I'd say "she lays eggs to gentlemen" has a dative-sounding occurence of "to gentlemen"; if you want allative and dative to look/sound the same in your 'lang, why not? that's certainly naturalistic and realistic. _________________ "We're the healthiest horse in the glue factory" - Erskine Bowles, Co-Chairman of the deficit reduction commission |
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Tolkien_Freak

Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 1231 Location: in front of my computer. always.
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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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eldin raigmore wrote: | Tolkien_Freak wrote: | Do you mean am I able to pronounce them at all, | That's sort of what I meant; but Tolkien_Freak wrote: | or do you mean am I able to pronounce them into a microphone that is attached to my computer? | is a more interesting question in the long term. Would you care to answer both? |
Yes, I can pronounce it at all, and I don't know if my microphone is good enough for sound files. I can try, though.
Quote: | ...I'd say "she lays eggs to gentlemen" has a dative-sounding occurence of "to gentlemen"; if you want allative and dative to look/sound the same in your 'lang, why not? that's certainly naturalistic and realistic. |
Kilhiryui has a separate benefactive, but doesn't distinguish allative and dative. An interesting side effect of that lack of distinction is that when you say 'I gave it to him', in English it sounds like he accepts it unless you specifically state otherwise, but in Kilhiryui you don't know if he does or not. |
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