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TC: My Fine Hen
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:23 pm    Post subject: TC: My Fine Hen Reply with quote

(Decide whether "higgledy-piggledy" is nonsense or a proper name; decide whether and how to translate it into your conlang so it fits.)

Higgledy-Piggledy, my fine hen:
She lays eggs for gentlemen.

Gentlemen come, every day,
To see what eggs my hen doth lay.

Sometimes nine, and sometimes ten:
Higgledy-Piggledy, my fine hen.
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dusepo



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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hēgeladē'pēgeladē, ngō'kēpenōha sa shān,
Sa'grebores rōnaq ta gōladotaq.

Gōldotaq gans, āthanatēm tak,
O leles qach rōnaq ngō'kēpenōha haps gebores.

Norā ngē, o norā fē,
Hēgeladē'pēgeladē, ngō'kēpenōha sa shān.

Higgeldy piggeldy (Heegeladee Peegeladee), my hen who (feminine) is fine,
She gives birth to eggs for men.

Men come, every day,
And see what eggs my hen has given birth to.

Sometimes nine, sometimes ten,
Higgeldy piggeldy (Heegeladee Peegeladee), my hen who (feminine) is fine.


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Last edited by dusepo on Wed May 07, 2008 6:16 pm; edited 3 times in total
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StrangeMagic
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Higaldi-Pigaldi, naémart hanka ni:
Éinpal as unaga ouvi.

Anaga cliwil, stinamat,
I éinpal naémart hanka lengi ouvar balupir.

Diwa ect, oun diwa aram:
Higaldi-Pigaldi, naémart hanki ni.

Higgledy-Piggledy, my hen fine:
Eggs for gentlemen to lay-3-PRE.

Gentlemen to come-3-PLU-PRES, every day,
What eggs my hen to do-3-PRE to lay to see.

Sometimes nine, and sometimes ten:
Higgledy-Piggledy, me hen fine.
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Dusepo,
@StrangeMagic;

I very much like your contributions! Thanks.
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mrtoast2



Joined: 19 Feb 2008
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Location: Goromonzi

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hílgúldee Pígúldee, télvón glôtékain hékaintah,
Vén álénteegán blórtkôn édélg pénkrôtén kán drénén dér seent.

Pénkrôtén kán drénén dér seent zhénvahnhátah, dénén hétlahktón bóf tôdónkrá,
Lénkánkah lénén blórtkôn kán télvón glôtékain álsénteegan.

Bóf bílbahchtár nôbrán, rólt bóf bílbahchtár dínah,
Hígáldí Pígáldí, télvón glôtékain hékaintah.

Higgledy piggledy, my hen fine
She lays eggs for men who are of niceness.

Men who are of niceness come, the days of all,
To see the eggs that my hen lays.

With occasion nine, and with occasion ten,
Higgledy piggledy, my hen fine.

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Tôśt drônén kókślán! Vón kríngénã Tôśt! Gâgén šníkél dér îwâ!


Last edited by mrtoast2 on Sun May 18, 2008 1:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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imbecilica



Joined: 09 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Higgledy-Piggledy, my fine hen:
She lays eggs for gentlemen.

Gentlemen come, every day,
To see what eggs my hen doth lay.

Sometimes nine, and sometimes ten:
Higgledy-Piggledy, my fine hen.

Qintari
Higúdi pigúdi, o-ra gae-mýu dotsu-mon
Jiego detsuji jangho jyo misuteru

Misuteru laiji, moida tenn
Kinji jangho nakei o-ra gae-mýu deji-dá

Asu-naesu gyo, itte osu-naesu kyan-dé
Higúdi Pigúdi, o-ra gae dotsu-mon!
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@MrToast2 and @Imbecilica; Thank you.
@MrToast2; thanks for the morphemic gloss, as well.
@Imbecilica; can you give us a morphemic gloss?
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imbecilica



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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eldin raigmore wrote:
@MrToast2 and @Imbecilica; Thank you.
@MrToast2; thanks for the morphemic gloss, as well.
@Imbecilica; can you give us a morphemic gloss?


Sure...

Qintari
Higúdi pigúdi, o-ra gae-mýu dotsu-mon
Jiego detsuji jangho jyo misuteru

Higgledy-piggledy (phonetic), my chicken-female good(nice)-adj.
She gives birth eggs for sirs(misters/gentlemen - phonetic)


Misuteru laiji, moida tenn
Kinji jangho nakei o-ra gae-mýu deji-dá

Sirs(phonetic) come, each day
To see eggs which my chicken-female laid


Asu-naesu gyo, itte osu-naesu kyan-dé
Higúdi Pigúdi, o-ra gae dotsu-mon

At times nine, and other times ten of them
Higgle-piggledy(phonetic), my chicken-female good(nice)-adj.
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Hemicomputer



Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 610
Location: Calgary, Alberta

PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holxûs:
Çikulti-Vikulti, kleven helm tol:
Îmarev nwkún mokv senlws kra.

Mokv senlws swl,
Gí omyutwr îmarv kúci kra.

Ríl kadu, al ríl rox:
Çikulti-Vikulti, kleven helm tanci.

Translation:
Higgledy-Piggledy, my good hen:
She makes eggs for respected men.

Respected men come,
For the seeing of her eggs.

Sometimes 9, and sometimes 10:
Higgledy-Piggledy, my good hen.

Gloss:
higgledy-piggledy, hen good 1-POSS
egg-PL make-3 man-PL respected for

man-PL respected PRES.CONST come
the see-OBJ egg-PL 3-POSS for

sometimes nine, and sometimes ten
higgledy-piggledy, hen good 1-POSS

EDIT: Did the gloss properly and made some changes to the translation of line 4. Rúicin kól, elden!


Last edited by Hemicomputer on Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:10 pm; edited 11 times in total
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hemicomputer wrote:
I don't really know how to gloss, just guessing based on the other glosses I've seen.
Look up "morphemic gloss", "interlinear morphemic translation", "Leipzig glossing rules", and/or "Christian Lehemann".
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mrtoast2



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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edited my original translation, higgledy-piggledy should actually translate to:
Hílgúldee Pílgúldee

Not:
Hílgáldí Pígáldí

Just had a momentary brain lapse with the phonetics.
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Hemicomputer



Joined: 04 Feb 2008
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Location: Calgary, Alberta

PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sun:
EDIT: Some phonological/grammatical/orthographic changes made.
Higaldi-Pigaldi, les joşna vojz,
Sa opatetka gast someltnol,

Somelt lad, völkajn,
Zana dol şa opatetka an sa gasthig voşt zot.

It völ kjo, it völ şen,
Higaldi-Pigaldi, les joşna vojz


Higgledy-Piggledy, good hen I-gen.al
she.sg egg-pl-acc make gentleman-pc-ben

gentleman-pauc come, day-dist.temp,
because they.M.pc def.F egg-pl-acc which she make-PAST see want

one day nine, one day ten
Higgledy-Piggledy, good hen I-gen.al


Last edited by Hemicomputer on Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:16 am; edited 11 times in total
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Tolkien_Freak



Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 1231
Location: in front of my computer. always.

PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's see if I can do this with Kilhiryui:

Higali-migaliye, kararyu elayei euruyei:
Hyarawat ryu kararakun auluwaki.

Euyat aulu, yirilhudhyeunakau,
Hiyawiwaki karakun hyarawatei kararyu.

Yirilhikkainakau kararakunyaun, yirilhikkainakau kararakutain:
Higali-migaliye, kararyu elayei euruyei.


/hiNali miNalije ka4a4jM elajei eM4Mjei
hja4aM\at 4jM ka4a4akMn aMlMM\aki

eMjat aMlM ji4iKMDj2nakaM
hijaM\iM\aki ka4akMn hja4aM\atei ka4a4jM

ji4iKikxainakaM ka4a4akMnjaMn ji4iKikxainakaM ka4a4akMtain
hiNali miNaliye ka4a4jM elajei eM4Mjei/

higgledy-piggledy-VOC, hen good-PTCP me-POSS-PTCP
live-HAB animal.PN[ACT] egg-STAT man-BEN

come man[ACT] sun-UNIV-TIME-LOC
see-GER-BEN egg-STAT live-HAB-PTCP hen[ACT]

sun-PAU-TIME-LOC egg-nine sun-PAU-TIME-LOC egg-ten
higgledy-piggledy-VOC, hen good-PTCP me-POSS-PTCP


I used the verb for 'to live' for 'to lay [eggs]', since 'to live' with an active subject can mean 'to give birth' or 'to cause to have life'. Also, the words for 'sun' and 'day' are the same.
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are good, Hemicomputer and Tolkien_Freak!
Thanks!
Can you pronounce them?
Can you write them in your conscripts?
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Tolkien_Freak



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're welcome, I need to do more stuff like this with Kilhiryui.

Quote:
Can you pronounce them?

Do you mean am I able to pronounce them at all, or do you mean am I able to pronounce them into a microphone that is attached to my computer?

Quote:
Can you write them in your conscripts?

*needs to work on conscript*
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Hemicomputer



Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 610
Location: Calgary, Alberta

PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eldin raigmore wrote:
These are good, Hemicomputer and Tolkien_Freak!
Thanks!

Thank you!
eldin raigmore wrote:
Can you pronounce them?

Yes, but I con't provide recordings right now. Sad
eldin raigmore wrote:
Can you write them in your conscripts?

I'm thinking I might not make a script other than Latin for Sum. If I do, I'll write this up. I'll try to get the Holxûs translation written now that I have the script settled.
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Hemicomputer



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(this post is no longer relevant due to editing.)
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Last edited by Hemicomputer on Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:15 am; edited 3 times in total
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Neqitan



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hemicomputer wrote:
Quote:
...gentleman-pauc-ANTIABL...

ANTIABL is the anti-ablative case. Again, I don't know whether this is the proper abbreviation (or even if this is a real case.) Basically, where the ablative case means motion away, anti-ablative means motion towards. So, this word would translate literally as "to gentlemen," better put as "for gentlemen."

That's called allative case dude. ...It reminds me the Finnish list of locative-like cases, which is just awesome.
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eldin raigmore
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tolkien_Freak wrote:
Do you mean am I able to pronounce them at all,
That's sort of what I meant; but
Tolkien_Freak wrote:
or do you mean am I able to pronounce them into a microphone that is attached to my computer?
is a more interesting question in the long term. Would you care to answer both?

Hemicomputer wrote:
I wrote:
...hen good I-poss.al...
The poss.al stands for aliable possession. I don't know if this is the proper abbreviation, I just guessed.
("Alienable"). If I remember correctly no "standard" abbreviation was given for this; if that's right your guess is as agood as anyone's.

Hemicomputer wrote:
I wrote:
...gentleman-pauc-ANTIABL...
ANTIABL is the anti-ablative case. Again, I don't know whether this is the proper abbreviation (or even if this is a real case.) Basically, where the ablative case means motion away, anti-ablative means motion towards. So, this word would translate literally as "to gentlemen," better put as "for gentlemen."
"to" for "motion toward" is generally called "allative". For lots of languages the same case is used both for allative and for dative; for others the biggest difference is allative is used for inanimate goals while dative is used for human goals.
"For" is usually translated with a language's benefactive case (if it has one); that case is used for beneficiaries.
I'd say "she lays eggs to gentlemen" has a dative-sounding occurence of "to gentlemen"; if you want allative and dative to look/sound the same in your 'lang, why not? that's certainly naturalistic and realistic.
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Tolkien_Freak



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eldin raigmore wrote:
Tolkien_Freak wrote:
Do you mean am I able to pronounce them at all,
That's sort of what I meant; but
Tolkien_Freak wrote:
or do you mean am I able to pronounce them into a microphone that is attached to my computer?
is a more interesting question in the long term. Would you care to answer both?

Yes, I can pronounce it at all, and I don't know if my microphone is good enough for sound files. I can try, though.


Quote:
...I'd say "she lays eggs to gentlemen" has a dative-sounding occurence of "to gentlemen"; if you want allative and dative to look/sound the same in your 'lang, why not? that's certainly naturalistic and realistic.

Kilhiryui has a separate benefactive, but doesn't distinguish allative and dative. An interesting side effect of that lack of distinction is that when you say 'I gave it to him', in English it sounds like he accepts it unless you specifically state otherwise, but in Kilhiryui you don't know if he does or not.
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