Vreleks Forum Index Vreleks
The Alurhsa Word for Constructed: Creativity in both scripts and languages
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Poetry in [conlang]: how?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Vreleks Forum Index -> Conlangs
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Kiri



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Latvia/Italy

PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:30 pm    Post subject: Poetry in [conlang]: how? Reply with quote

Hey guys!

Since we seem not to have a "con-cultures" forum here, I decided to put this question/discussion here.

Have you tried to make poetry in your conlangs? If yes, how do you go about it?

For me, the idea of rhyming things in my conlang seemed like hell, so I rejoiced at the realization that there are many things I could try again.

At the moment I'm toying with alliterative verse, to see, well, what happens Very Happy

Here's a try:

Et vangot ent valenti durrcjon,
ōe vengi rint,
qai buiras beo daeiri.

Puiran piļļīz dāo sio,
qa paņķ bt qe dāo
ōe qandul qimniz veber?

Et rraugat urrar kaeite;
u rroig al;
ōe vmar ha varraer al!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Aert



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only poetry I've done is translations from already-written works, so I don't know if I can add much to this thread.

In my mind, I'd have to know what the author is thinking i.e. what frame of reference they have (culture, context, etc) before real/proper artistic work could be done in this manner.

That being said, there are many different artistic patterns which could be used in written art such as poetry, rhyming being one of them. Others that come to mind are stress patterning, alliteration (as you've done), tongue-twisters, and multiple uses of words with the same roots.

I might give this a go as a test of the conlang I'm currently working on, but that will have to wait a while - the conceptual foundations are still not ready.

Can you provide a translation of the poem you posted?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
eldin raigmore
Admin


Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1621
Location: SouthEast Michigan

PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Poetry in [conlang]: how? Reply with quote

Kiri wrote:
Hey guys!

Since we seem not to have a "con-cultures" forum here, I decided to put this question/discussion here.

Have you tried to make poetry in your conlangs? If yes, how do you go about it?

For me, the idea of rhyming things in my conlang seemed like hell, so I rejoiced at the realization that there are many things I could try again.

At the moment I'm toying with alliterative verse, to see, well, what happens Very Happy

Here's a try:

Et vangot ent valenti durrcjon,
ōe vengi rint,
qai buiras beo daeiri.

Puiran piļļīz dāo sio,
qa paņķ bt qe dāo
ōe qandul qimniz veber?

Et rraugat urrar kaeite;
u rroig al;
ōe vmar ha varraer al!



Aert wrote:
Can you provide a translation of the poem you posted?


WHS.
Until then, I can only go by the sound: and going by the sound, it sounds like good alliterative verse. I could be more certain if I knew the accent-pattern or stress-pattern. Or, maybe better yet, or as well: post a sound-recording of you (or someone) reciting the poem.

In some natlangs poetry is based on end-rhyme; in some, on alliteration/assonance; and in some on tone. For most of those, the poetry is also based at least partly on stress or accent.

But in some natlangs poetry is based on meaning or grammar rather than on sound.
For instance, the poem may consist of several six-line stanzas then a couplet; for each stanza the six last words of the lines are the same as those of the other stanzas, re-ordered in a particular pattern; and the ending couplet contains all six words.
Or, the poem may consist of stanzas of three or four lines each, with a lot of grammatical parallelism; perhaps the "quatrains" must consist of four lines with two grammatical structures, two lines of each structure, in a given pattern (for instance, AABB or ABAB or ABBA).

Even in languages whose poetry is based on sound, there is variety.

For those based on tone, for some languages there is a "climbing rhyme". Each line has a certain number (more than two, say three or four or five or whatever) of syllables, and a certain syllable in the line repeats the tone of the first syllable of the line; but which syllable changes rhythmically.
For instance the pattern may be:
1234
1234
1234
1234
1234
1234
etc.
where the bolded syllables in each line share the same tone with the first syllable in that line.

Another thing that happens in some tonal languages where most words are monosyllables is that stanzas consist of, for instance, four lines each containing, for instance, five syllables. For each stanza there is one tone that occurs ten times in its twenty syllables; maybe the remaining ten syllables can be any other tone, independent of each other. The fixed and variable tones alternate in a fixed pattern. For instance, if "tse" represents the variable tone(s) and "ping" represents the fixed tone, the pattern might be:
tse, ping, tse, ping, tse;
ping, tse, ping, tse, ping;
tse, ping, ping, tse, tse;
ping, tse, tse, ping, ping.
Obviously you could expand that idea to more than four lines a stanza, and/or more than five syllables a line, and/or more than one "fixed" tone.

Also for some languages with alliterative poetry, sometimes the poet tries to repeat a certain sequence of consonants, or at least a certain set of consonants.

For instance, maybe the line is:
badi fego buda fegi

or

abdi fego duab gefi

or something like that (the first line repeats the sequence b-d-f-g and the second line repeats the set {b,d,f,g}).

(Of course the two halves of the line don't have to have the same number of words, and the words don't have to have the same number of syllables. It could be, maybe,
badi fegi bu dufge
or
ba dife gi budufge
or something.)

-------------------------------------------

Anyway I'm glad you're giving it a try. You're not the first, but as near as I can tell you are in a minority. I admire and envy all of you conlangers who dare to attempt poetry in your conlangs.
_________________
"We're the healthiest horse in the glue factory" - Erskine Bowles, Co-Chairman of the deficit reduction commission


Last edited by eldin raigmore on Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:52 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kiri



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 471
Location: Latvia/Italy

PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not the best quality sound ever but here's a recording: https://soundcloud.com/ingus-macats/et-vangot-ent-valenti-durrcjon

Now, for gloss and meaning:

1st tristich
Et vangot ent valenti durrcjon,
this.SG.ERG night.SG.ERG have darkness.SG.ABS big.ADV
This night is very dark
ōe vengi rint,
and blakness.SG.ABS 3-have
and it is black
qai buiras beo daeiri.
when spin 2F.SG.ABS far
When you're spinning far.

This night is very dark, it's black, when you're spinning [your webs] far [away from me].

2nd tristich
Puiran piļļīz dāo sio,
ask insect.PL.DPN towards 1M.SG.ABS
I ask the insects
qa paņķ bt qe dāo
what.ABS owe 2F.SG.ERG who.DPN towards
what do you owe and to whom
ōe qandul qimniz veber?
and how.many.PL.ABS death.PL.ABS need
and how many deaths are needed

I ask the insects [around me] what do you owe and to whom, and how many [more] deaths are needed?

3rd tristich
Et rraugat urrar kaeite;
this.SG.ERG war.SG.ERG burn all.SG.ABS
This war is burning everything
u rroig al;
it.ABS end HRT
please stop it
ōe vmar ha varraer al!
and make.famous self.SG.ABS make.powerful HRT
and make yourself famous and powerful

This war is burning everything. Please stop it and [thus] make yourself famous and powerful!

DPN a "dependent" case that is only used together with postpositions
HRT hortative (arguably suprahortative)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Aert



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice! Love the recording!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
eldin raigmore
Admin


Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1621
Location: SouthEast Michigan

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard it, and it sounded like poetry -- mission accomplished, IMO!

I guess I'd have enjoyed it more if I actually understood the language.

There are probably people who aren't as poem-deaf as I am who would enjoy it like it is.
_________________
"We're the healthiest horse in the glue factory" - Erskine Bowles, Co-Chairman of the deficit reduction commission
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Vreleks Forum Index -> Conlangs
All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
Theme ACID 2003 par HEDONISM Web Hosting Directory


Start Your Own Video Sharing Site

Free Web Hosting | Free Forum Hosting | FlashWebHost.com | Image Hosting | Photo Gallery | FreeMarriage.com

Powered by PhpBBweb.com, setup your forum now!
For Support, visit Forums.BizHat.com